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pabloinus
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A while ago there was a discussion about spinning cups and CNC cups, being the last ones without "soul" because of the CNC tools used for them.
Look to what I found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quugnBW2Hq8&feature=related

We have lost the soul of the cups for ever, from now on Jake, Riser and others will become R2D2s

.....
Bill Palmer
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You would be surprised what cups are spun by a computerized lathe. Harries Bosco cups are just one example.
"The Swatter"

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walid ahumada
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The new generations will learn to identify the soul of the things from its software
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
Epiphany
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Quote:
On 2008-10-31 19:58, walid ahumada wrote:
The new generations will learn to identify the soul of the things from its software


Even software needed a soul to write it.
gaddy
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Just remember that you are the magic --and not the props. I'm sure you'll be able to find the "cup's soul" with that in mind..
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
cupsandballsmagic
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Good point gaddy Smile

This is a subject that comes up in the guitar world a lot... People buy exactly the same guitar, pedals and amps, even get their guitar set up the same way, with the same strings and tuning as Stevie Ray Vaughan and think that it will allow them to emulate his tone and soul...

The thing is, it was all in his soul, his fingers and was a part of him.

I don't know about the difference between CNC cups because I don't own a set but I do know that a good magician can put his or her soul into a plastic $1 set and amaze and entertain an audience.
JamesTong
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I believe the rub-a-dub-dub routine speaks for itself.
pabloinus
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Before we go too far with the soul thing, and giving me lessons on artistry and performace...
My post tried to be an irony.I am not implying whatsoever about soul in inannimated items or the role of the magician.

A while ago there was another post comparing Johnson cups made through a CNC process and RNT2 made through a manual spin process, and the general comment was that manual spin process gives a different something to a piece like any artisan gives to his/her art, while a CNC tool driven by a software does not.

The video shows a Spin process controlled by a CNC machine...

That's all, just take the post as it is a humorous comment.
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2008-11-01 07:20, mindyourmagic wrote:
Good point gaddy Smile

This is a subject that comes up in the guitar world a lot... People buy exactly the same guitar, pedals and amps, even get their guitar set up the same way, with the same strings and tuning as Stevie Ray Vaughan and think that it will allow them to emulate his tone and soul...

The thing is, it was all in his soul, his fingers and was a part of him.

I don't know about the difference between CNC cups because I don't own a set but I do know that a good magician can put his or her soul into a plastic $1 set and amaze and entertain an audience.


There was a fellow who purchased Gazzo's vest, cups, wand and pouch who thought this would make it possible for him to "be" Gazzo. It didn't work.
"The Swatter"

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cupsandballsmagic
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James, I just looked up the rub a dub dub... Wonderful! Yes, that does illustrate it perfectly!

pab, I don't think we are taking it too seriously, just discussing things asthey come up and the video was fascinating.

Bill, it seems like it happens in all walks of life. Shame because our individuality can make the difference.
Bill Palmer
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That's exactly true. There are literally hundreds of examples of this. As mentioned above, it happens with guitars. It also happens with banjos, harmonicas, baseball gloves, bats, hats, jerseys, jackets, rifles, pistols, knives, and yo-yos.

You can't buy talent. You can't buy skill. And you can't buy being artistic.

BTW, some people call magic the art that conceals art.

Think about this.

Pabloinus -- I spotted the irony in this instantly. BTW, did anyone ever notice that one cup maker knocked Busby for making CNC cups that were not as nice as the Johnson cups, because they didn't have the internal work of a spun cup, but he never said a thing about Van Dokkum's cups, which have the same kind of inside-outside situation.

One difference, though. Van Dokkum actually makes his cups. They don't get sent out to "Acme cup carving service."
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Magic Researcher
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Quote:
On 2008-11-01 11:39, Bill Palmer wrote:
...BTW, did anyone ever notice that one cup maker knocked Busby for making CNC cups that were not as nice as the Johnson cups, because they didn't have the internal work of a spun cup, but he never said a thing about Van Dokkum's cups, which have the same kind of inside-outside situation...


Anyone paying attention to such things will remember that this cup maker wrote the comment BEFORE Auke was making his cups. It would be difficult to have commented on items before they were ever made.

How come Bill Palmer did not mention Porper's cups in this comment?

BTW - worse things than cup design could be said of Auke. Did anyone ever wonder why other manufacturers put away their wares when Auke came looking at conventions? Hmmmm, you can not buy "soul" not can you steal it.
MR
Repeating a falsehood often and loudly does not make it true.
Bill Palmer
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I think you have misinterpreted my statement. I am not knocking Auke's workmanship at all. Nor am I knocking his cups. I consider Auke's products to be among the finest in the business, when it comes to CNC work. In fact, I was the person who NAMED two of the sets he makes. I have sets of his cups that nobody else has. I think you are ignoring the last sentence in my post.

If you really want to be fair to the fellow who posted the caustic comments about the Busby cups, remember that Joe Porper had not done anything to p*** the guy off. I don't think the fellow with the web page in question deserves any more "fairness" than he gave.

But, he had plenty of time to modify that page when the Sherwood cups came out, which was approximately the same time that the Van Dokkum cups were first issued. The person who posted those comments was modifying that page until December of 2006.

Check the original web site. You can find it if you know where to look. Since you are a "Magic Researcher," Smile Smile Smile you should know how to do that.
"The Swatter"

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TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
On 2008-11-01 09:30, Bill Palmer wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-11-01 07:20, mindyourmagic wrote:
Good point gaddy Smile

This is a subject that comes up in the guitar world a lot... People buy exactly the same guitar, pedals and amps, even get their guitar set up the same way, with the same strings and tuning as Stevie Ray Vaughan and think that it will allow them to emulate his tone and soul...

The thing is, it was all in his soul, his fingers and was a part of him.

I don't know about the difference between CNC cups because I don't own a set but I do know that a good magician can put his or her soul into a plastic $1 set and amaze and entertain an audience.


There was a fellow who purchased Gazzo's vest, cups, wand and pouch who thought this would make it possible for him to "be" Gazzo. It didn't work.

I think there was a lot more than just one.
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Bill Palmer
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I'm sure there have been many more than one.

The set of cups and the pouch I have are the ones he used in his book.

BTW, for one of my posts about the quality of Van Dokkum vs. Busby cups, check this out.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=4632864
"The Swatter"

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Robert Kohler
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BTW - the original post showing the Youtube spinning was NOT showing a CNC process. It shows computer guided spinning. I assume the 'soul' comments were referring to spinning and shaping by hand vs. computer. CNC machining refers to a 3D program which cuts away a solid block of metal to the exact shape that is drawn in the CAD program. Many believe that the carving away of material via a programmed machine has less 'soul' than spinning and shaping by hand.........
We judge ourselves by our intentions - others judge us by our actions.....
<BR>
<BR>B. Wilson
Bill Palmer
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Robert:

CNC refers ONLY to the control part of the system. It does not refer to the technique. Gibson, Hopkins and a large number of other companies cut their inlays and their fingerboards using a CNC table. Granted, they use a CAD program to tell the machine where to go. So does the computerized spinning system.

Robot welding is a CNC process.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Mobius303
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Artistic interpretation where Art by hand becomes art and CNC cups are just cookie cutter representations of art which has less a part of the Blood sweat and tears of the artist contained in the process. At least for the most part.
A peice made by hand feels different and is difficult to explain in words.

Cool video.
Mike
Jimeh
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Not being a C&B guy I'm curious, could you honestly tell the difference between a cup made by hand and a cnc made cup?? I'm sure in some cases you can obviously but in the case of a cup that is of superb quality could you still tell?
(without being told who or what made it of course)

James
gaddy
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Quote:
On 2008-11-01 09:30, Bill Palmer wrote:


There was a fellow who purchased Gazzo's vest, cups, wand and pouch who thought this would make it possible for him to "be" Gazzo. It didn't work.


Would he be willing to sell 'em? Smile
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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