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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » My New and Improved Cups and Balls Routine (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicByUriel
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Thanks for the advice Bill.

This is the reason I posted this to get constructive criticism, and I got it. Thank you all.
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
Bill Palmer
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The moves look good. You just need to work on a script.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
MagicByUriel
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Quote:
On 2008-11-02 18:16, Bill Palmer wrote:
The moves look good. You just need to work on a script.


Got it.

Now does anyone have any advice where I can get some high quality/heavier balls (not cork)? I'm a little tight on cash right now, so please take that into consideration. Right now I use the red 7/8" balls my PF cups came with. I think they are made by RNTII, because I purchased the cups straight from Jake.
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
KeithP
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Soap Box!!!
Please don't read, this has nothing to do with the actual topic.

I'm am so glad to see our fellow posters being honest about thier evaluation. It is wonderful to see constructive critism being posted here. Much too often I see at magic clubs, people going up to the performer after the meeting and praising them, and giving them a false sence of how good the performance actually was. Everyone who has a slightly negative thought leans on the "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." This leads our growing magi down the wrong path. I'd rather lean on the concept of treating others as I would want to be treated. I want the truth about my performances!!! Thank you fellow posters.

Ah...I feel better now. Thanks!
Keith
MagicByUriel
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Keith, I feel the same way. As I said before the reason I posted this to get constructive criticism, not to impress magicians. I'll leave that to Kent.Smile
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
Bill Palmer
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Try these people:
http://www.mouseballz.com/
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
MagicByUriel
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Quote:
On 2008-11-02 19:23, Bill Palmer wrote:
Try these people:
http://www.mouseballz.com/


I tried using mouse balls, but the rubber sometimes make the Garcia Opener very hard. Also, they roll around a lot. I made a monkey fist around the core of a mouse ball, and it is just to big for my cups.
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
Bryan Gilles
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RNT2 balls are very nice and you are able to wash them too! Otherwise, you may try to get your hands on a Mike Roger's set of balls!

-Bryan
MagicByUriel
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On 2008-11-02 20:00, Bryan Gilles wrote:
Otherwise, you may try to get your hands on a Mike Roger's set of balls!

-Bryan


That was funny Brian, Mike Roger Baseballs?! Smile Smile Smile

Wait, you were serious weren't you. I guess you missed when I said I am a little tight for money at the moment...
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
Bill Palmer
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Have you tried making monkey fist balls out of marbles?
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
MagicByUriel
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I have made them with steel ball bearings. They were a nice size, but I only had leather shoelaces to work with, and leather creates friction.

Here's a picture of the first one I ever made, not the best shape but you get the picture - http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1383nt9.jpg
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
Bryan Gilles
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Strapped for cash... Try the little tennis balls from a pet store. They usually have catnip scented ones for the cats but they work excellent! And for a couple bucks you've got a set of balls. Then you can get regular tennis balls as final loads to complete the ensemble!

-Bryan
MagicByUriel
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Quote:
On 2008-11-02 21:08, Bryan Gilles wrote:
Strapped for cash... Try the little tennis balls from a pet store. They usually have catnip scented ones for the cats but they work excellent! And for a couple bucks you've got a set of balls. Then you can get regular tennis balls as final loads to complete the ensemble!

-Bryan


I've tried three pet shops, none had mini tennis balls. And my PF cups can't take a tennis ball anyway.
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
Bill Palmer
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You need to try either PetSmart or Petco. Or try this link:
http://www.dogtoys.com/tennisballtoys.html .
Or this one http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp......ng&fbx=0
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Lawrence O
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Quote:
On 2008-11-02 18:30, MagicByUriel wrote:
Keith, I feel the same way. As I said before the reason I posted this to get constructive criticism, not to impress magicians. I'll leave that to Kent.Smile


The last part of your post was mean. Kent is very modest as a person: it's the incredible quality of his routine that impressed all of us. Your line however demonstrates that when someone is sharing great magic rather than pushing his ego (and everybody has one), he gets recognition and fame. How many magicians try and "sell" themselves and remain in the shade...? Isn't there a lesson here?
One honor himself to give credit where credit is due: do you think that I'm not a bit jaleous as well not to have come with a routine as good as Kent's when I worked along the same path but for 50 years?
Let's praise him rather than trying to discretly scratch him.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Lawrence O
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Quote:
On 2008-11-02 20:53, MagicByUriel wrote:
I have made them with steel ball bearings. They were a nice size, but I only had leather shoelaces to work with, and leather creates friction.

Here's a picture of the first one I ever made, not the best shape but you get the picture - http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1383nt9.jpg


This looks great to me: they don't roll all over the place and will not look out of place in a Bosco or fair's magician type of routine. They only need to be worked with to gain a bit of patina. Have you tried wetting them (they tighten) and then oiling them lightly
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
MagicByUriel
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Quote:
On 2008-11-03 04:57, Lawrence O wrote:
The last part of your post was mean. Kent is very modest as a person: it's the incredible quality of his routine that impressed all of us. Your line however demonstrates that when someone is sharing great magic rather than pushing his ego (and everybody has one), he gets recognition and fame. How many magicians try and "sell" themselves and remain in the shade...? Isn't there a lesson here?
One honor himself to give credit where credit is due: do you think that I'm not a bit jaleous as well not to have come with a routine as good as Kent's when I worked along the same path but for 50 years?
Let's praise him rather than trying to discretly scratch him.


I didn't mean to be mean. I just meant my routine is a pretty basic routine with nothing really unseen or amazing. While Kent's has many elements that fooled me (a fellow magician and cupper), and I loved his routine for it! It was simply a small joke, but if anyone was offended I apologize. My apologies to Kent as well.
"Magic is the only art that the audience wants the performer to screw up" - Daniel Garcia
bobn3
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Frank Starsinic has some nice ones on his site.

http://www.theambitiouscard.com

Bob Phillips
Thomas Wayne
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Positive: You have most of the technical aspects down very well, and Mameh seemed to really enjoy the routine.

Negative: Bill Palmer is spot on when he mentions the redundancies in your patter, but you also need to eliminate the non sequiturs and nonsense. The way you kept changing the justification for "eliminating" the balls [near the end] was particularly cringe-worthy. You've spent plenty of time practicing the sleights - now go spend some time writing a coherent script. If you take a moment to watch Dai Vernon here:
Classic Dai Vernon C&C
You will see that the verbal part of his performance was nearly perfect. He understood what to say and when to say it; even some of his "stumbles" are intentional, sending the spectators minds in the direction he wants them to go.

One last thing I would say about your patter is this: try to eliminate the word "now" from your speech altogether. You won't be able to - even Vernon used the word a bit too much - but if you make the effort you will at least reduce it to a palatable frequency. Currently you seem to use it to fill space, much like an "um". A few years ago when I was directing a young magician's rehearsals for an international magic competition I tried several different ways to eliminate "now" from his patter. The one that finally worked was for me to yell out "WHEN?" every time he said "now". It worked, and became ingrained in both of us (apparently), because as I watched your video I found myself constantly wanting to yell "WHEN?" at the screen.

My one other critique would be this: I was also surprised when you revealed a large load in the middle of the routine. The fact that it is surprising, however, does not necessarily make it a good thing. The most important thing about the Cups & Balls is the final loads. Prior to that point the magic is interesting, but not startling - since the cups are big and the balls are small enough to easily hide in your hand(s). The reveal of the three large balls is the natural climax of the routine, and the fourth ball (if used) is the "kicker".

Anything you do to warn them in advance of the ending can only be seen as a "spoiler". When you produce the one over-sized ball part way through the routine - but then revert to using small balls for several more sequences - you do two things wrong. First, you've weakened the subsequent small-ball sequences because they just saw a larger ball appear out of nowhere, and that magic eclipses any small-ball moves you've got left. Second, you've weakened the big finish by giving them a poorly-timed preview of things to come.

In the above linked performance Vernon says: "They used to judge the skill of a magician by how well he performed this trick", and he was right about that. Perfecting the moves and sleights of the Cups & Balls is only a small part of the battle, and there is a lot more education about the art of magic to be learned from this time-honored "trick" than just how to load and steal balls.

TW
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Tom Fenton
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Mr Wayne,

Thank you for your post.
It has given me a lot to think about.

Tom
"But there isn't a door"
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