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WV Loyal user South Africa, Durban 289 Posts |
One of my collagues saw me looking at a magic website and he showed me various places on the internet that cards used to be called the Devil's Bible and later the Devil's Picture book.
Aparently the Joker represents Jesus, The King of Spades is the King of Darkness (Devil)...? I'm not to sure of this and not sure where they get their "Facts" from? Does anyone know anything about this?
Vernesto
"I'm not perfect, just forgiven!" "I'm finding everything I'll ever need, by giving up gaining everything." |
BradBrown Regular user Florence, KY, USA 183 Posts |
There are a lot of stories that connect religious meanings to cards. There's one that periodically goes around the internet claiming cards have Christian meanings. You can read about one of those here: http://www.snopes.com/glurge/cards.asp
Personally, I don't think either view has any basis in fact. Cards were created simply for playing games. They have no inherent meanings, allowing people to read into them whatever they want. This was discussed at length on this forum a little while ago. That thread is here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=16 -Brad |
Kif Anderson FCM forum Staff 1961 - 2012 386 Posts |
WV -
I've heard this before, but have not given it much notice. I do know many church members have issues with playing cards and so when doing church shows, these are usually not included in our shows. (know your audience...that's the key). I searched a little and there is sure a "case against playing cards" as you have noted at the link below: http://hungryheartsministries.com/id105.html I'm certainly confused by the history they are sharing. I've always believed that the history of the modern cards started in France. The suits we know today were introduced: hearts (representing the Church), spades (for the aristocracy), diamonds (for soldiers) and clubs (for the peasants). They also introduced the convention of coloring the diamonds and hearts red, and the spades and clubs black. The latter greatly aided play by making each card more instantly recognizable. As well, they began to portray the kings, queens, and jacks (or valets, or knaves, as they were known) in the 15th century clothing that we still see them. Part of this movement towards regularizing the appearance of the face cards was naming them. I have no knowledge of how exactly this came about, nor how the names were chosen. However, tradition tells us that David was the King of Spades, Alexander the King of Clubs, Charlemagne the King of Hearts, and Caesar the King of Diamonds. Pallas was the Queen of Spades, Judith Queen of Hearts, Rachel Queen of Diamonds, and Argine the Queen of Clubs. La Hire was the Valet of Heart, Ogier of Spades, Hector of Diamonds, and Lancelot of Clubs. More information about the history (and some other name options) can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playing_card That said, the link below tries to disclaim it...but snoops is often wrong...not that it really matters in the scope of things. (just figured I give another view) http://www.snopes.com/history/world/cardking.asp Can 52 (53 with joker) pasteboards be an evil thing? If one is doing a magic trick to amuse a crowd...I wouldn't think so. If someone is using it to tell the story of The Soldier's Bible... http://my.homewithgod.com/mkcathy/inspirational2/cards.html ...I would hardly think they are of evil use. If one uses them to gamble and then loses the money he needed to feed his family...then the action was evil...not the cards. (I think that goes more with the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil" thinking. If one uses them to fortune tell...then one is participating in things that the Bible certainly discourages (to put it mildly). As I said, I've never researched the idea of a "Devil's Bible" or a "Devil's Picture book" and the site first referenced seems to have a strong opinion...but the "history" they are quoting sure seems made up to fit the point they want to make...not based in any "facts" as you are asking. Hope that helps. ><> J Kif
We are not cisterns made for hoarding, we are channels made for sharing. - Billy Graham
<BR> <BR>Sharing the gospel with Comedy & Illusion www.ozandwilde.com |
Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
Personally I think deep-fried macaroni & cheese is the work of the devil.
Of course, that is about as rational and scripturally sound as the other assertion. You should be aware that even Christians simply make stuff up. That hungry hearts page is a bunch of crazy annecdotal quotes and completely inaccurate history of cards. First of all, they are not actually evolved from tarot at all, they were designed for gambling and probably had Asian influence. Asian card gambling appears to be the first documented use of cards. And gambling was so rampant (because conditions were so awful) the govts and churches set out to villify it and tax it. The Ace is called the death card because that was the card that had the tax stamp. You could handmake your deck of cards, but not the Ace. If you made an Ace and didn't pay the tax you got the death sentence. The names for the cards on the website are complete fabrication. My only conclusion after reading that website is they are completely nuts or using fear and deception to bring in money and sales. Of course magicians take advantage of the colorful history and mythology of cards. I wouldn't take anything from a magician too seriously.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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Heres Tony Loyal user Orlando 259 Posts |
I've also read that playing cards where thought to have originated in China and were popularized in Europe by the aristocracy. One account read that commoners where allowed to play cards publicly only at certain times of the year, etc.. Most of what Kif recounts I have heard as well.
If you do a decent internet search you'll find stuff on the history of playing cards that's pretty thorough and nothing I've read deals with the "devil" angle. |
Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
As one of my favorite bits from SNL, Master Thespian, would say:
ACTING! BRILLIANT! Thank you! It's called fiction and theatrics my friends.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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revmike Special user Annville, PA 646 Posts |
AS a rule, I don't do many card effects in my church shows, but when I do church shows everybody knows I am an ordained pastor, thus I may perhaps have a little more liberty from the audience than a lay gospel magician.
The magic is not in our sleights and illusions, but instead in our ability to bring love and joy.
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Kevin Wade Loyal user 225 Posts |
I once read a funny story by Bev Bergeron where he attended a Christian event where (if I'm not mistaken) David Williamson was performing. To paraphrase Bev said during the show David pulled out a deck of cards, held them high and said in a loud voice, "Now we all know playing cards are of the Devil!" David then quickly shoved the deck towards someone in the front row and said, "So here, YOU shuffle them!"
David then went on to perform a card trick. The idea was to add humor to lighten up the audience to relax the idea of using playing cards. |
David Williamson V.I.P. 190 Posts |
Nope. Wasn't me.
Sorry |
Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-16 12:56, Kevin Wade wrote: Sorry Kevin, it was Steve Bargatze. |
Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-16 21:52, David Williamson wrote: David, Is the Magic Circle still researching that five card trick? David |
Kevin Wade Loyal user 225 Posts |
Steve Bargatze! Now I remember.
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scody Loyal user 232 Posts |
Here's another reference:
http://www.demonbuster.com/cards.html
-manamana
Denver Corporate and Party Magician |
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