I m back from a casino where I've been playing some poker cash game.First time in this casino as I'm currently travelling here and there. They had some automatic shuffling machine inside the poker table, and well they had quite a lot of problems with this stupid shuffler. To the point that after an 1h the dealer had to manually shuffle the cards on every round..
Well I ve heard that sometimes those shuffling machines are not really reliable but is it something common?
What are the typical issues with them? Is it possible to get some advantage with a deffective shuffling machine?

Going on what I have heard, yes... It's very possible. Some machines have retained slugs on the top and bottom, and occasional the entire deck if it's completely broken (or if it's been "jimmied" to do so).

How would one know when there has been a problem? ie The deck comes up out of the table, now how do you know it has not or has shuffled them properly?

I ve been wondering how those machines shuffle. I mean do they emulate a riffle shuffle? What about the stripping action? Those poker shuffling devices have obviously a complete different shuffling mechanism than the massive blackjack ones.
Do a top slug tend to remain in the upper portion of the deck like with a couple of riffles?
If so do the dealers have to wash the cards prior to put the deck inside the machine for a complete secure procedure?

They noticed the problem because of the little lights on the machine which were remaining off. As if to indicate that the machine didn't shuffle at all and also because on a couple of occasions a card or two appeared to be stucked inside the mechanism.

In many locations the dealer just removes the deck, cuts and deals. In other spots, the dealer will give the deck one final riffle shuffle or two, then cut and deal.

The latter approach is probably safer, as it tends to destroy any partial slugs that the machine might've maintained, but both can be compromised.

Jason

I've seen that. But what's the point to use an automatic shuffler then? I mean, in standard casinos they riffle 2 times, then a strip and then a last riffle (sometimes two). If after the shuffle device they riflle shuffle two times, well, it's 2/3 of the old time "with the hands" shuffling procedure. OK, probably they can deal a few more hands per hour, but, anyway, it's weird!

What I have seen is the croup do a Wash Shuffle, before, they are put into the machine. When they come out they are cut by the croup.

Maybe we can design one to automatically ring in a cooler...

who needs sleight of hand

The device I'm working on,will do just that!

Not in a casino ,but in private games.If someone knows a -very- good machinist,please PM me.

Something here about them:
http://may.casinocitytimes.com/articles/10585.html


h2o asked an interesting question

"What about the stripping action?"

I do not know but if there is no strip cut only riffles what that will create is "Endless Chains"

AMcD

My guess is that the shuffles in the machine are for the house, and the shuffles out of the machine are for the players.

The house is worried about dealers and players colluding to try and take off bad beat jackpots and things like that. The pre-mixing by the machine prevents that.

The players want comfort and familiarity. The hand shuffles are right out in the open and the cards are clearly being mixed (we're setting aside the possibility of cheating for the moment). I think this probably reassures players and sets their minds at ease.

Casinos using both get the best of both worlds. Eventually everyone will be used to the auto-shufflers and no one will shuffle by hand unless the machine breaks down (as they clearly sometimes do). Until then, we get hybrid procedures like this.

Just a thought.

Jason

Well, that day something will be definitely broken :-(. I read once that some casino owners planned not to use croupiers at all. All electronic, all ruled by computers, players just need to press keys.

Our world is going stupid!

Tommy don't you use shuffling machines in your poker club?
Don't you think that the regulars in your club would enjoy a table with a shuffling machine?
When there's a central dealer I personnaly prefer a shuffling machine. That makes the game faster. Well, at least when the dealing machine is working fine. I'm not a regular in casino poker rooms, but well yesterday was really the first time I saw so many problems with such a shuffling machine.
Maybe that's why my flush got crushed by a full house and my trips eaten by a higher trips, and I went home broke... snif :-/

Shuffling machines have 2 advantages for casinos:

1) More hands dealt per hour
2) The shuffling achine will break up the natural patterns that thecards will form after about an hour of blackjack play.

As you know, human beings will have a hard time breaking up clumps of cards and patterns. But, a machine can do so easily.

This means that the odds will be that high and low cards are more randomly mixed when using a shuffling show. But, when you shuffle by hand, the highs and low cards will tend to clump together more.

Over the past several years casinos have spend a lot of money developing hand shuffling proceedures which break up these patterns and more thoroughly mix the highs and lows together.

Don't forget the casino likes a neutral deck to prevent card counters from making large bets :-(

How about this for an idea.....I don't have the time to develop it....

Make a card shuffler which uses edge marke dcards. Then the shuffler will be programmed to read the marks and automatically stack programmed hands for any pre-programmed player.

You will be able to do this with a shufflemaster machine because it uses pins to push out "random" cards and generate a "shuffled" deck.

I do not have the time to develop the concept

But, it sounds very possible

No we do not use them at my club. The cheap ones a are crap and Shuffle Masters are about $15000 a piece. They have a deal and rent them to casino's for a $2000 a month I read. We just shuffle up and deal here at my place. I don't like them and I don't think many players do either.

for you tommy. Let's figth against those stupid machines!

PS: A SM is really sold 15k bucks?!!!

An interesting fact: in a local Casino small stakes BJ is played with 8 decks and is shuffled by machine, while high stakes is played with 6 decks and is hand shuffled. The high stakes players apparently prefer the "fairness" of a dealer shuffling the cards.

But you're talking about blackjack procedures. It looks strange that casinos still want to rely on manual shuffles for that kind of game. It would be better for them to spend money on reliable and fast shuffling machines.

Regarding the use of shuffling machines in casinos or poker rooms I still believe that from a cheating point of view the use of an automatic shuffling device is a benefit. But not for the one working with a crooked dealer obviously.