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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
The Kennedy Thread in "Stand the Test"
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Rimbaud Loyal user Saint Louis 291 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 00:24, Dannydoyle wrote: This is an excellent analogy. I used to be a 'grassy knoller' myself. I read all the conspiracy books and (mistakenly) thought Oliver Stone's JFK was gospel. I was sure it was the CIA, or the Mob, or both. A few things came to light over the last few years that finally made me see that, as much as I wanted it to be a grand conspiracy, it was simply one pathetic little man in one building, with one rifle, that changed the course of history. First, I saw the remastered and cleaned up version of the Zapruder film. In it, you can clearly see Connelly reacting to the bullet strike on the same frame as Kennedy. You can even see the frame where Connelly's jacket puffs out, showing the exact instant of the wound. Then, when Jennings (and later the history channel) applied some modern forensics to the case, it just became too obvious to deny. First, they blew aways of the things in Stone's movie that were just nonsense. (Oswald not being able to make it down the stairs to the Coke machine so soon without being out of breath. Nonsense. They had a guy actually do it and it was a short stroll. Oswald not being able to make it from the boarding house to where Officer Tippit was killed on foot in time. Nonsense. They had a guy follow every conceivable path between the two points. He had more than enough time. And the elaborate deception with the "fake" photo of Oswald with the rifle that killed Kennedy and the pistol that killed Tippet. Nonsense. Marina took the photo. She has always said she took the photo. She even wrote a mocking insult to Oswald on the back of it. There is no mystery about that photo.) Then, they dealt with the Magic Bullet Theory. Oliver Stone sits two men in chairs one in front of the other and then says the bullet has to zig zag to make all those wounds. The problem is that wasn't where they were sitting. Connelly was in a jump seat in the limo. He was six inches lower and 12 inches further in than Kennedy. He was turning to the right at the time of the shots (You can verify all this by looking the Zapruder Film.) The bullet path is a straight line. There was no magic about it. The History Channel even set up some anthropomorphic ballistic jell dummies (kind of like fancy mannequins with the exact same consistency as a human body--bones, muscle, etc.) and recreated the shot. The bullet came out looking pretty much identical to the real one. There was no real mystery about it. Plus, people always say the shot was impossible. No it wasn't. First, as has been noted, Oswald was a Marine marksman. His rifle range scorebook backs this up. Second, Oswald wasn't TRYING to fire three shots in only eight seconds, hitting two men in exactly those specific places. He was simply aiming and firing at his target. That's where the bullets happened to go. To recreate it, marksmen have a much more difficult task because they are trying to recreate specific wounds, rather than just hit the guy they are looking at in the scope--which is all Oswald was trying to do. One final thing--Oswald had the job at the Book Depository BEFORE Kennedy's route through Dallas was announced. On the face of it, that means that IF it WERE a conspiracy, the person who set the route had to have been in on it. Does that actually seem reasonable? There just isn't any mystery to this. Only the tragedy, and the desire to understand it, so that it never happens again.
http://www.DanLaddthehypnotist.com
"Saying 'Everyone is special' is just another way of saying 'No one is.'" --Dash from The Incredibles |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 11:57, Tom Bartlett wrote: There again, Kennedy hung with some heavy hitters. I think the mob put a price on Oswald's head immediately after the assassination and Ruby stepped up to the plate. Perhaps Ruby owed someone a favor ... call it mob justice.
POOF!
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I have to say what shocks me is the number of people who seem to get their historic perspective from a Hollywood movie.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Just for those of you who weren't aware of this, there is a forum here at the Café called "The Attic" where we discuss, in addition to other things, conspiracy theories. There's a thread on the JFK assassination here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......m=251&81 The thing is, The Attic is potentially a very interesting forum, but it suffers from a few people bringing the same quarrels to every thread. It would be quite refreshing if some of you would go there and post your own thoughts on a few things. The linked thread would be a good place to start. I'm not in any way trying to kill this thread; rather, I'm trying to bring some fresh air into the Attic. Consider this a heartfelt invitation to join the discussion there. |
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Rimbaud Loyal user Saint Louis 291 Posts |
AND...
Really, I don't want to beat a dead horse or anything, but all the evidence points to Jack Ruby as being a mentally unbalanced hothead who acted on the spur of the moment. 1. We know the exact moment Ruby walked into the police station. (One of his dancers called him that morning and asked him to wire her some money. The Western Union Office was next door to the police station. The time stamp on the telegram was just a couple of minutes before the shooting.) He didn't walk into the station until over 45 minutes AFTER Oswald was supposed to have been moved. Again, by the time Ruby walked in, Oswald was supposed to already be gone. The move was delayed because Oswald decided he wanted to change shirts because he was going to be on TV. (There are lots of witnesses to that.) That means that if it was a conspiracy to kill Oswald, the dancer AND Oswald himself would have had to have been in on it. Which, obviously, just doesn't seem all that likely, does it? 2. Jack Ruby was a nutcase. He was always carrying that gun and was always pulling it out and waving it around. His nickname was "Sparky" because of his sudden temper. Everyone who knew him knew that it was only a matter of time before he shot someone. Again, the desire to have this sad story be more than it is, is almost overwhelming. But there is no mystery about this either.
http://www.DanLaddthehypnotist.com
"Saying 'Everyone is special' is just another way of saying 'No one is.'" --Dash from The Incredibles |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Oswald was the perfect scapegoat. Oswald psychological profile showed his willingness, made him easily manipulative without him being aware he was part of the conspiracy.
Ruby knew that he was terminally ill with cancer before Oswald took the shot and knew what he had to do in the event Oswald was captured alive. JFK was at odds with the Democratic Party because of his conservative ideas and policies. LBJ was on the other hand was a big government type of guy, and had his “The Great Society” plan ready to impalement as soon as JFK was out of the way.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I'm not among the conspiracy group but I find some of your thoughts interesting to say the least. I'm an Oswald did it guy and agree with the straight shooters here.
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 12:46, Tom Bartlett wrote: That and he hated communists. As a matter of trivia guess the name of Caroline Kennedy's godfather. I was a little boy when the assassination went down. I used to walk down to the local diner and got an earful in my Italian neighborhood. JFK was "Catlick and the president fuchrissakes!" The Italian's weren't happy. I got my mouth washed out with soap when I repeated in front of my mother what I'd overheard at the barbershop, "Someone outta kill that (Oswald) good for nothin' ****-sucker."
POOF!
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 13:02, kregg wrote: Yes JFK was also at odds with the Mob and the Labor Unions and as soon as LBJ was in office he did as much as possible to appease them but this type of covert operation was not the way the Mob worked. Also the assault on the Mob was a pet project of Bobby Kennedy. LBJ just could not keep Bobby quite by himself.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
My dad didn't like JFK too much either and has no alibi.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
I still say that the mob had no reason to assassinate Kennedy. And Oswald was a delusional nut extraordinaire. At the time the parties were so alike it was getting difficult to tell the franchises apart. Like I said, "Kennedy hated commies." John asked his friend and fellow senator Joe McCarthy to be Caroline's godfather. Teddy and the klan have been trying to rewrite that chapter for years. A few years ago I learned that Cal Thomas and Teddy are BFF. Washington makes for strange bedfellows.
POOF!
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Rimbaud Loyal user Saint Louis 291 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 13:38, Dannydoyle wrote: Right. It is important that we separate speculation from fact. A lot of people think LBJ did it. The problem is that none of the facts--none of the evidence--supports that theory. To say that LBJ might have done it, or the Secret Service, or the mob, or the Cubans, or a midget in a storm drain, doesn't alter the fact that there there is no more credible evidence that they did it than aliens from another planet bent on world domination. What we want it to be has no bearing on what it actually is. Gerald Posner, author of Case Closed, and the first guy to use computer modeling to support the so-called "Magic Bullet Theory", said an interesting thing once. He said that the way things were in the fall of '63, he woudn't have been at all surprised if Carlos Marcello or Sam Giancana, or even members of the CIA WANTED to kill Kennedy, and maybe even discussed it. But that it doesn't change the fact that on that particular day in November, all the evidence points to one deranged guy in one window doing one horrible thing. It isn't any fun. But it is what it is.
http://www.DanLaddthehypnotist.com
"Saying 'Everyone is special' is just another way of saying 'No one is.'" --Dash from The Incredibles |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
The zapruder family got 16 million bucks from the gov. in the 90's for the film.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 15:02, kcg5 wrote: But ... that was after the CIA put in their CGI FX ... right?
POOF!
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
An interesting side comment here. Later the name of Harry Anderson's New Orleans club was Oswald's.
When Kennedy was shot, I was a college student at the University of Alabama. It was during the same time Governor George C. Wallace stood in the doorway at the University of Alabama. That year I switched from Methodist to the Episcopal student center to keep from going to church with armed National Guardsmen. My dorm room trash can was the can from an Army gas mask. Following the JFK shooting it all went away. We were just stuck with a very weak president: LBJ. When MLK was shot, I was sitting in a class in law school. School was immediately dismissed. To my surprise, the national media immediately ran stories about the non-violent MLK. I had lived in Montgomery, Alabama for three years while he was there. My dad's office was two blocks from his church. My memories from experience include nothing about the non-violent MLK until the media rewrote the story. (Watts was not the first event!) That ended any credibility the news media had with me. Frank McGee was a local newsman at WSFA-TV and someone I really admired. He lost ground too. The story became fiction. Later George C. Wallace was shot as was Bobby Kennedy. The media resorted to fiction again but to a much lesser degree. I never knew Bobby Kennedy. I did know George Wallace. He was one of the finest people I have ever known. He was always fair with me. The rest of the story is that he was a Democrat and I am a Republican. As a Republican, I have run for statewide office in Alabama. He was the most credible man of that political era to me. We didn’t agree on everything. But he was honest. Later I was a University of Alabama employee during the Kent State incident. The Governor of the State of Alabama sent State Troopers to "maintain" order at the University of Alabama. That governor got on television and lied that no live ammunition was issued. I personally watched the troopers load their weapons that day with live ammunition on campus in Tuscaloosa. Fortunately, the only campus incident was an object thrown at a trooper and the aggressor was immediately arrested. His address was P.O. Box 13. That is the FBI! He was not a university student. He disappeared. To me, news media is not journalism in the USA. It is creative programming to produce an audience for exposure to commercial advertising. I have years of experience as a university professor teaching advertising. I trust the integrity at Disney more than the news media in the USA. And I trust the news media more than the US Government. There is no reason to rely. Welcome to the world of illusion! Perhaps magic is real. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Hmmmmm.....Bob seems to have an alibi for all those events, I think it is a bit too pat. Admit it Bob....admit everything!
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 15:38, kregg wrote: Naw, its much cheaper for them. You don't think Lucas invented ILM do you??
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-11-18 14:15, Rimbaud wrote: Not, however, the opinion of Robert Tannenbaum, former homicide bureau chief for the NY DA's office, who never lost a felony case and was the Deputy Chief Counsel for the House Select Committee on Assassinations, which in the late 70's took a hard look at the Kennedy (John) and King assassinations. Tannenbaum is probably at least as familiar with the Kennedy assassination evidence as anyone else alive today; his opinion, FWIW, is that the Warren Commission Report is "a work of fiction."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Quote: Who made the fatal shot has never been as important, as who called the shot and all the forensic evidence in the world is not going to help you determine that.On 2008-11-18 14:15, Rimbaud wrote:
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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