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Barry Donovan
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I did a search but didn't find much

wanting to learn the 3cm for entertainment value not to swindle people!

any learning material better than the rest?

at the moment my head is turned by the school for scoundrels notes
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
Scott M
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The notes have a lot of information and history and routining...the DVD SfS has is to go with the notes and really give you a visual of what the notes cover. I think both are mandatory and compliment each other...hard to say one over the other, for me...as both reveal with the other doesn't.

Have not seen Daryl's vid...but SfS is all you need in my oppinion.
-Scott M
Feral Chorus
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Certainly you cannot go wrong with SFS material.

However, from the magician's viewpoint as an entertainer I think Daryl's DVD has more to offer. Although it doesn't say so, much of the DVD is essentially the video version of Scarne's three card monte book. You get all the basic information about surfaces, card prep etc. You will also learn a vast array of moves and certainly as many moves as you will ever need to be able to construct your own routine if you choose to.

Daryl also gives you plenty of routines for the 3CM including Vernon's and he also teaches a slew of 3CM variations like Vernon's seven card monte, dutch looper, and various gaffed versions.

I have seen a lot of DVD's come and go from my collection, but Daryl's 3CM dvd is one I will always keep. Recommended.
bishthemagish
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I like the routine as it is written in Erdnase. And I also like the way that it is written up in Further Inner Secrets Of Card Magic - Dai Vernon. And the John Scarne book is also very good.

The problem with three card Monte in entertainment is the same problems as I see in the shell game and the cups and balls. Many of the routines I see other magicians do are way to long.

Also the personality of the performer is very important. The magician should be a likeable person.

Last but not least - the routine has to be a strong good routine with interesting variations and twists to keep the audience interested.

Doing it for entertainment is a bit different than doing the routine as a swindle in my opinion. When they do it as a swindle the con artist "wants" the "mark" to think that they know where the queen is - so they will put a bet down.

When doing it for entertainment the magician doesn't want the audience to be able to know where the queen is - plus they also want to "mystify" the audience and entertain them at the same time. So in my opinion doing it for entertainment is a bit different.

A lot of magicians use the crimped corner as the final and that is a good ending. I use that and from time to time an ending where the queen vanishes and all the cards end up tens - using the one handed bottom deal.

I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
mrunge
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I'd go to the School For Scoundrels again. Chef Anton will teach you all you need to know. He's fantastic.

http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore......onte.htm

You also can't go wrong with the Daryl DVD.

http://www.foolerdoolers.com/store/produ......d=800208

Mark.
The great Gumbini
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I like the color monte. It's fun and the routine itself lends to a comical effect rather than serious.


Good magic to all,


Eric
luvisi
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It may be worth your while to check out The Scoundrels Bibliography and Practice Not Included.

Andru
doug brewer
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I pattern my 3CM very similarly to my shell game - that is, a beginning throw down where the cards are barely mixed so the spectator gets a feel for how the cards are thrown and mixed. They should easily pick out the queen. Next I do a hype throw, and serious mix. Spec should miss. Again, a hype throw, serious mix, but not quite so serious to let them think I'm trying to help them out. Spec should miss. Now Vernon sequence - which is brilliant, beautiful series of moves. I end similar, but not exactly, like Jim Swain finishes his routine (which is very, very quick in its entirety, btw). My set is very fast.

My biggest heartburn with some routines I see is that there is hardly any "mixing". The cards are thrown and maybe two or three cards are exchanged. What? Of course, the queen isn't where it's supposed to be and this leads the specs straight to the throw - it has to be the throw, because the cards weren't mixed.

Though I learned the 3CM from books, you will learn MUCH faster with video. The hype move is one of those things that you will appreciate once you see it done properly. I'd start with Daryl's DVD and School for Scoundrels - both are a wealth of information I wish I had when I was 8 when I started throwing the Monte (for entertainment).
DStachowiak
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Quote:
On 2009-03-12 13:22, doug brewer wrote:
I pattern my 3CM very similarly to my shell game - that is, a beginning throw down where the cards are barely mixed so the spectator gets a feel for how the cards are thrown and mixed. They should easily pick out the queen. Next I do a hype throw, and serious mix. Spec should miss. Again, a hype throw, serious mix, but not quite so serious to let them think I'm trying to help them out. Spec should miss. Now Vernon sequence - which is brilliant, beautiful series of moves. I end similar, but not exactly, like Jim Swain finishes his routine (which is very, very quick in its entirety, btw). My set is very fast.

My biggest heartburn with some routines I see is that there is hardly any "mixing". The cards are thrown and maybe two or three cards are exchanged. What? Of course, the queen isn't where it's supposed to be and this leads the specs straight to the throw - it has to be the throw, because the cards weren't mixed.

Though I learned the 3CM from books, you will learn MUCH faster with video. The hype move is one of those things that you will appreciate once you see it done properly. I'd start with Daryl's DVD and School for Scoundrels - both are a wealth of information I wish I had when I was 8 when I started throwing the Monte (for entertainment).

I think most spectators already know it's the throw. What else can it be?
That doesn't make it any less entertaining. Same with the 3 shell game. They know you are stealing and loading, the fun is in leaving them in the dust in SPITE of what they know. (IMHO)
Don
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doug brewer
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I'd say 25% (or less) are wise to how the games work. Most people (at least the one's in front of me) have never seen either game in person and don't know for sure what is going on. I think doing the hype move, then exchanging the other two cards, then showing the Queen is not where she should be, is lame routining and borderline exposure. A person might as well be doing the Skinner routine (which I like and use, but it ain't 3CM). Just an opinion, of course.
DStachowiak
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Quote:
On 2009-03-13 16:53, doug brewer wrote:
I'd say 25% (or less) are wise to how the games work. Most people (at least the one's in front of me) have never seen either game in person and don't know for sure what is going on. I think doing the hype move, then exchanging the other two cards, then showing the Queen is not where she should be, is lame routining and borderline exposure. A person might as well be doing the Skinner routine (which I like and use, but it ain't 3CM). Just an opinion, of course.

Although I'm not convinced about the percentage, I do follow your logic. I guess what I'm saying is, from the spectators viewpoint, there are only 2 possibilities: Either you are switching the cards on the toss, or the cards are gimmicked. Your point about the Skinner routine (which I agree is a totally different animal than 3CM) is interesting, because that's one routine where it's absolutely necessary to have them believe it's sleight of hand, since the only other possibility is gimmicked cards.
I do agree with your larger point about routining. A good routine should not just be hype, hype, hype, on every phase. "Look how clever I am, I can throw these cards down and you can't follow them. Ever." What could be more boring than that? In fact, if there's not at least a phase or two when they do hit the money card, what's the point? You might as well just lay three cards down without showing the faces and have them guess which one is the winner.
Your routine, as described above, sounds like it hits the mark by letting them follow the money card just enough to think they can beat the game, which is, of course, what makes it fun.
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doug brewer
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Don - I think we're on the same page Smile I should have also made the point that if you're going to learn 3CM you should also kind of decide the "angle" you're going to approach. Is it an exhibition where you sort of explain that they can never win, and show why (the Vernon routine/sequence follows this), or are you actually trying to beat them in more of a street version? Originally I did a more "I'm going to beat you at 3CM" presentation and it wasn't very fun overall. Now I like the exhibition as I can have more fun, there's no pressure on the spec, and I can end on a more magical note (I am a magician, after all) where the cards change twice (all queens, all jokers, then back to normal for the end). Some purists would probably frown on this.

Ironically, the original poster was named "purist", so he may opt for this style?
DStachowiak
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Quote:
Now I like the exhibition as I can have more fun, there's no pressure on the spec, and I can end on a more magical note (I am a magician, after all) where the cards change twice (all queens, all jokers, then back to normal for the end). Some purists would probably frown on this.

Ironically, the original poster was named "purist", so he may opt for this style?

I also prefer the exhibition style, as it avoids a situation where the spectator starts guessing, and ends up guessing right. I never want to have to try a Mexican Turnover with my audience burning my hands. Smile
Don
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topandball
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Quote:
On 2009-03-14 09:17, DStachowiak wrote:

Although I'm not convinced about the percentage, I do follow your logic. I guess what I'm saying is, from the spectators viewpoint, there are only 2 possibilities: Either you are switching the cards on the toss, or the cards are gimmicked.


There's a third possibility, and that's that they have no idea why the card is not where it should be. I find this to be the case by and large. When we play this game for real the mark only sees the card in the wrong place two or maybe 3 times; only when he bets. Twice just doing it, and once with the bent corner, and no one's going to wake up to it.
"Gamblin' Sam from Birmingham, I learned this game in Vietnam"
R.I.P. Haynes, the ORIGINAL "Gamblin' Sam"
NJJ
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Quote:
On 2009-03-12 14:45, DStachowiak wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-03-12 13:22, doug brewer wrote:
I pattern my 3CM very similarly to my shell game - that is, a beginning throw down where the cards are barely mixed so the spectator gets a feel for how the cards are thrown and mixed. They should easily pick out the queen. Next I do a hype throw, and serious mix. Spec should miss. Again, a hype throw, serious mix, but not quite so serious to let them think I'm trying to help them out. Spec should miss. Now Vernon sequence - which is brilliant, beautiful series of moves. I end similar, but not exactly, like Jim Swain finishes his routine (which is very, very quick in its entirety, btw). My set is very fast.

My biggest heartburn with some routines I see is that there is hardly any "mixing". The cards are thrown and maybe two or three cards are exchanged. What? Of course, the queen isn't where it's supposed to be and this leads the specs straight to the throw - it has to be the throw, because the cards weren't mixed.

Though I learned the 3CM from books, you will learn MUCH faster with video. The hype move is one of those things that you will appreciate once you see it done properly. I'd start with Daryl's DVD and School for Scoundrels - both are a wealth of information I wish I had when I was 8 when I started throwing the Monte (for entertainment).

I think most spectators already know it's the throw. What else can it be?
That doesn't make it any less entertaining. Same with the 3 shell game. They know you are stealing and loading, the fun is in leaving them in the dust in SPITE of what they know. (IMHO)
Don


I disagree. If they KNOW it's the throw, you're doing the routine wrong.

It's like saying they KNOW that it's a double lift!

The key is to throw them off the scent with fake methods, fancy mixes (not to much, not too little) and all the little comeons that make the hype 'impossible'
topandball
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You're exactly right. They have no freaking clue what's going on. And by the time they start to think they do, you get 'em with the lug, and they are out to sea again.

There is one piece of really important advice on 3cm that's in the Erdnase book which is known intuitively by any player, and ignored mostly by magicians. Whoever wrote that book never played the game for real it seems to me, but he did know how to fool people.

-B
"Gamblin' Sam from Birmingham, I learned this game in Vietnam"
R.I.P. Haynes, the ORIGINAL "Gamblin' Sam"
topandball
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Another note on that, when it's time for the mark to bet, the laydown sequence goes like this:

hype, double flash, ... yup, that's it. We throw them down and that's it. It has to look EASY, but you have to ACT like you think you're fast. Then they think you don't know how easy you're making it for them, and they will try to take advantage.

-B
"Gamblin' Sam from Birmingham, I learned this game in Vietnam"
R.I.P. Haynes, the ORIGINAL "Gamblin' Sam"
themagickeeper
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Once you've gotten the hang of it, Catch 22 by Lee Asher is a great routine to do with all the moves you've learned,

David.
luvisi
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Quote:
On 2009-05-22 11:05, topandball wrote:
There is one piece of really important advice on 3cm that's in the Erdnase book which is known intuitively by any player, and ignored mostly by magicians. Whoever wrote that book never played the game for real it seems to me, but he did know how to fool people.


Are you referring to playing fair several times at the beginning, or something else?

Andru
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Never play fair...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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