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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » A question to Mr. Jacquin - mentalism and hypnosis combined (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Estabrooks
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I just noticed that Anthony Jacquin also participate in this forum.

He has written a wonderful book called reality is plastic which I highly recommend.

I do however am curious and have a question to mr. Jacquin and all the other great mentalists reading this regarding combining mentalism and hypnotism.

I have considered to try and use mentalism effects like some sort of "convincers" for hypnosis. An idea would be to use for example PK-effects and claim that the effect is a result of your hypnotic induction, and in reality is not really happening.

This might be a silly idea. But I would really like your thoughts on combining certain mentalism tricks with hypnosis work.

Best wishes,
Estabrooks.
dmkraig
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Estabrooks, my answer would depend upon your purpose. There are plenty of physiological and psychological convincers that require no trickery. So if you're doing a convincer as part of a hypnosis act, I'd say, "Why bother?"

I did once see a stage hypnotist who began by doing a book test to indicate how minds can end up "in sync" and work together. It was a good way of getting people "on your side" and ready to participate, but my final belief is that it was only good and not great. A stronger build up in the introduction (before the pre-talk), in my estimation, would have been even better. At the end of the night everyone was talking about the hypnosis, not the book test.

Perhaps a stronger effect, such as one of my favorites, The Tossed Out Deck, would have been more effective. I remember doing lots of magic as an MC to a talent show. One effect I did at the end was the Tossed Out Deck and that was all anyone was talking about. But as part of a hypnosis show? I don't think so.

I would say that hypnosis--or pseudo-hypnosis--as part of a mentalism act could be a great bit. I recently read an idea by Kenton Kneipper that uses an add-a-number pad to show how you could "hypnotize" someone into not being able to see something written in front of him and that everyone else could see. Cute! But I guess I don't see the value of mentalism as part of a hypnosis act. The reason for that is that in a hypnosis act, the job of the hypnotist, IMO, is to act like a ring leader, making sure that everything goes fine but basically getting out of the way and letting the people who are hypnotized become the stars of the show. Doing something that puts the hypnotist as the focus of the show, rather than its director, doesn't do much for me.

Perhaps you can be more specific of how you intend to incorporate the two.
MiketheMagicDude
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I bet if you wire anthony a couple grand he will part ways with his reality is mental material...which are beautiful examples of exactly what you are referring to.
Anthony Jacquin
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Quote:
On 2008-11-23 13:36, Estabrooks wrote:
I just noticed that Anthony Jacquin also participate in this forum.

He has written a wonderful book called Reality is Plastic which I highly recommend.

I do however am curious and have a question to mr. Jacquin and all the other great mentalists reading this regarding combining mentalism and hypnotism.

I have considered to try and use mentalism effects like some sort of "convincers" for hypnosis. An idea would be to use for example PK-effects and claim that the effect is a result of your hypnotic induction, and in reality is not really happening.

This might be a silly idea. But I would really like your thoughts on combining certain mentalism tricks with hypnosis work.

Best wishes,
Estabrooks.


Hi Estabrooks. Thanks for your kind words about my book. I assume if you have an interest in mentalism that you have the supplements to it. If not then email me direct and I will send them.

When I am doing 'traditional' stage hypnosis - a row of chairs and a 'ring master' etc I do not do any mentalism or mix it in with my act. When I got started with stage hypnosis someone had planted the seed in my head that if you do magic stuff people make the logical leap and think 'trick'. If you then do hypnosis they make the illogical leap and think 'fake'. I am no longer convinced this is some golden rule but what it meant is that when I got started I kept the two things separate.

The only exception to this is if it is a small and intimate gig I may do some walk around mentalism beforehand to introduce myself and warm up my potential volunteers.

I know a very successful stage hypnotist who in his intro does a tossed out deck and it works well for him.

I have also had mentalists ask your question who feel that if they introduce hypnosis then because some people believe people will do anything when hypnotized that it lessens the impact of their mentalism. This is also a valid point. It is al about the presentation and what you use it for.

When not doing stahe hypnosis I tend to do walk around mentalism and table to table stuff. I do not have a stage mentalism act. When doing walk around although generally I am introduced as a hypnotist I consider myself a mentalist. I guess I behave like it is fine for a mentalist to throw in some hypnosis, but tougher for a hypnotist to start messing with trickery. So I might use the set piece as a method of subject selection for a hypnotic trick. I might put somein a genuine state of hypnosis for the purposes of a mind reading effect.

When doing mentalism I find it perfectly feasible and acceptable to use pseudo or real trance, catalepsy, amnesia and other bits and pieces to either make an effect work or add to it's impact. I am happy to use hypnosis as a pre-show method to hypno force, hypno peek or set up a subsequent post hypnotic act or re-induction.

In short yes I think mentalism and hypnosis can be combined to produce something strong. It is necessary to consider what are you being employed to do, how do you wish to be perceived, is it adding to entertainment value you provide?

I appreciate my thoughts on this contradict themselves in some ways. As I said there are no hard and fast rules. It works for me.

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
tiriri
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Hello to all!

I just started a few months ago doing mentalism shows in Quito (Ecuador), with great results on the public. And I was wondering exactly the same thing as Estabrooks. Because I took a course on Hypnosis and NLP in order to introduce them in my show.

The reason why a thought about mixing both is that I’ve seen a couple of great hypnotists that use other types of magic such as escapism or eating glass, saying that it is all mind control over the body. They do that in the beginning of the show not only to catch people´s attention, but also to start inducing hypnosis without people knowing, so when they say they are going to do hypnosis, they have already gone at least half the way to it, and in the end the hypnosis part of the show appears to be very quick and impressive because people were already in a hypnotized state since the beginning of the show.

So I was thinking that mentalism is closer to hypnosis than those other types of magic so I am still considering the idea of mixing it in the same show with hypnosis to get the same results as the hypnotists I’m referring to.

Anyway I am just a beginner and I have not yet performed hypnosis in public, therefore all your comments are welcomed!

Best regards from the middle of the world!

Giovanni.
Anthony Jacquin
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Hi Giovanni,

good to hear you are performing and enjoying it with good reactions.

Your comments about those doing a mind control act capturing attention and making it easier to then hypnotize quickly are valid. However any good hypnotist does this anyway, simply by being a hypnotist and giving a sound pre-show lecture.

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
James Hazlerig
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This might not be a popular view here, especially on a performer forum--but as a clinical hypnotist who also performs, I steer clear of mentalism effects, hypnotricks, and any other kinds of deception. My reasoning is simple: I believe that real hypnosis is amazing enough, and throwing in deception cheapens it. Then again, I'm compulsively honest, so I feel that deceiving people lessens our rapport.

I'm not posting to *** folks who combine mentalism and hypnosis--I love watching and studying mentalists--I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint to ponder.

BTW, Anthony--I love your videos, and your book is definitely on my wishlist.
James Hazlerig
www.HarmonyHypnosis.NET
mindpunisher
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How can added value - devalue a show?

The value comes from the entertainment not the methods? Adding a mental section to a hypnosis show can only add to the overall audience experience.

You are paid to entertain them not "decieve" them. Its not about honesty its about value in terms on entertainment.

Anyone who talks about "deception" are deceiving themselves and doesn't understand what stage hypnosis or mentalism is truly about. They are also short changing the audience.
dmkraig
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Part of many forms of entertainment--including magic, mentalism, hypnosis--includes the concept that the audience must adopt a willing suspension of disbelief. With magic, that is the disbelief in the idea that magic doesn't exist. With mentalism, it's the disbelief that psychic phenomena don't exist. With hypnosis, it the suspension of the false beliefs concerning the functioning of the conscious and unconscious minds.

MP, by your analogy, if in the middle of a mentalism act you started doing 20th Century Silks or a Die Box you'd think that was an added value to the show. I would disagree. It takes people out of the willing suspension of disbelief in psychic phenomena and turns it into nothing but a magic act. You may as well forget the mentalism and just do boxes and silks. The same is true with introducing mentalism into a hypnosis show. Not only is there no need, but it detracts from the state of mind you want in your audience.

Now, these are general comments. In some cases a single mental effect could set up a hypnosis act, but a good build up in the introduction does all that without having people wonder about the mental effect. I wouldn't want to perform a Die Box routine as part of a mentalism show (although it might be fit into a bizarrist show).

A good hypnosis show takes anywhere from 40 to 60 minutes. That's a long time for today's audience. Adding a non-essential set of mental effects will overstay your welcome and just doesn't make any sense.
tiriri
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Anthony,

Thanks for the advice!

I think I´ll try the pre show lecture: I´ll tell you how it goes.

Giovanni.
Anthony Jacquin
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Quote:
On 2008-11-26 21:59, tiriri wrote:
Anthony,

Thanks for the advice!

I think I´ll try the pre show lecture: I´ll tell you how it goes.

Giovanni.


Go for it. It needn't last longer than four minutes. 10-15 really is more than enough.

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
Updated for 2016

Now on Kindle and Audible!
dehypno
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Entertainers can do what they wish depending on the setting. I have done "mind-reading" demonstrations prior to a show for sure. Younger crowds might like that more...it can build some credibility from time to time.

I do prefer, if I am going to use some demonstration to build credibility, a memory routine or a rapid math calculation of some sort. Since my theme is that we are showcasing the power of the human mind, it works well for me.
bobser
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'showcasing the power of the human mind'. I like that. It kind of gives you carte blanche to do anything you want after making that statement. Thanks dehypno.

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
dmkraig
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I agree with bobser, but with one proviso--whatever mental effects you do, they have to be good and look like mental phenomena, not simply a magic trick.
briandavidphillips
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If I use a mentalism effect within my hypnosis act, I only use those that rely upon genuine psychological forces rather than gimmicks or props or the like. However, when I do my seance or trance wizard acts, I combine seance effects with added suggestion quite a bit. The shows are tongue-in-cheek rather than presented as genuine demonstrations though.

It really will depend upon your own presentation and whether or not you wish to present yourself as a genuine hypnotists or a magician doing a few mental effects based upon suggestion.

All the best,
Brian
Hypnosis DVD Courses
http://www.briandavidphillips.com

Brian David Phillips brian@briandavidphillips.com
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Keelung, Taiwan
http://www.briandavidphillips.com
dehypno
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Indeed, I would not pull out a deck of cards or a prop of any kind if I was doing something in front of a hypnosis show. Feels tacky to me in some way...but to each his own.
Photo-Wizard
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On Saturday evening at Blackpool Magic Convention I and several other lucky individuals witnessed a True "Miracle" being performed (well two miracles actually)in the Bar at The Ruskin Hotel.

Amongst those in attendance were Magic Sam (The Peoples Magician who hosted Beat The Wand) and amongst several others Jon Randall a close friend of Jeff McBride and Eugene Burger.

Here's what we witnessed thanks to magic and hypnosis and mentalism techniques having been combined into a most memorable performance piece.

The performer asked for a volunteer and got them to remove a coin from their pocket which was never at any time touched by the performer.

The volunteer signed their initials on one side of their own coin and on the other side was told to draw a black cross which they did.

They wereasked to place this onto the centre of their upturned palm and strecth their arm out in front of them as they stared at the centre of the black cross on their coin in order to be certain that the performer could not at any time switch the coin etc.

The performer stated that he would count backwards from 5 down to 1 and that on each number th volunteer would start to see the coin shimmer in the light and that they should tell everyone when they started to see the coin VISIBLY bnding on the centre of their palm.

By the count of one the volunteer was gasping in amazement and declaring that they could see & feel their coin visibly bending on their palm.

They were then asked to try and straighten out their "bent" coin which they did several times to no avail confirming to everyone that the coin was too hard, was genuinely their coin and could not be bent back into position.

The volunteer was then told to place the bent coin back onto their palm and as the performer counted from 1 to 5 the volunteer confirmed much to his amazement and everyones ENTERTAINMENT that they could see and feel the coin visibly staightening on their palm.

At th count of one they confirmed that THEIR coin,the coin that they had been holding all the time was now straight and they were unable to bend it back by hand.

Indeed they also expressed regret that earlier that day they'd invested into David Penns "Coinvexed" gimmicks when clearly the performer had never switched their coin at any time,they had signed it and confirmed they had witnessed a miracle.

Whats best is for the rest of the weekend this is EXACTLY the way the volunteer related the story to everyone they spoke to and as far as they were concerned its the truth.

Obviously us people watching in the audience never saw the coin bend because it never did, but you try telling that to the volunteer (as many people did try to) and they would never believe you.

Many who were there that evening stated that they felt as if they had witnessed Real Magic and found it truly Entertaining with a Capital E and that's what we are there to do Entertain.

As for the volunteer he had perhaps the most truly magical experience of his life to date...

The secret was Hypnosis and NLP combined and a Master Hypnotist using the cross on the coin as the fixation point and using this for a covert induction.

Some say these things cannot be done but WE all witnessed it with our own eyes and were amazed... effect two we witnessed follows in next posting
Photo-Wizard
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The Second "Miracle" we witnessed that night was perhaps best described as The Berglas Effect.

After the performance the performer assured us that there was NO pre-show work, what we had witnessed with our own eyes is exactly what occured and that no stooges or such like were used.

Believe me several of us qustioned the people used in the routine and none of them had any ideahow it had been done..

We witnessed the performer remove a deck of cards from his pocket and place them down on the centre of the hotel bar table in the foyer of the Ruskin.

The performer turned to someone in the audience and asked them to call out the name of any playing card in the deck which they did...

Then he turned to a second person and asked them to call out any number between 1 an 52 which they did...

Then the performer asked a thrid person to pick up the deck, open it, remove it from its case and count down to the number that had been called out..

Yes you've guessed it the card at that very number was the randomly called out playing card and everyone who witnessed it was gobsmacked.

Generously the performer explained that COVERT hypnosis was used to achieve some elements of the miracle, and even more forunately he went into great detail with a select few of us on how the effect was achieved.

The True Facts are that he did use Covert NLP & Hypnosis method's and in a way practically guaranteed to work 99% of the time to create a true miracle which niether the people invlolved as volunteers and/or the audience could explain.

So based on what I witnessed at Blackpool I'd say that NLP, Hypnosis, Magic & Mentalism can when combined correctly create true miracles which are guaranteed to leave a lasting effect on all who witness them and those who participate in them also.

Oh and whilst I'm not at liberty to divulge this performers real world solution to the Berglas Effect, I know the performer will not mind me mentioning that it is based on a combination of methods taken from 13 Steps to Mentalism, a certain book by Karrel Fox and ideas from a Wayne Dobson effect combined with igenious use of NLP & Covert Hypnotic techniques...

The Truth is out there...
Photo-Wizard
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Oh I almost forgot, for those who are interestedthe performer showed us the gimmicks used to achieve the ACAAN Berglas Effect.

Let me tell you this was without doubt the most ingenious use of a TT together with a NW and a single gimmicked playing card combined with a normal deck of playing cards (which as he explained could be borrowed if you have time to set themin the right order) together with Covert NLP & Hypnosis techniques I've ever seen.

And the resulting effect was by far the cleanest version of the famed Berglas Effect I've ever witnessed other than from the legend himself.
mindpunisher
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>>>>>>>>MP, by your analogy, if in the middle of a mentalism act you started doing 20th Century Silks or a Die Box you'd think that was an added value to the show. I would disagree. It takes people out of the willing suspension of disbelief in psychic phenomena and turns it into nothing but a magic act. You may as well forget the mentalism and just do boxes and silks. The same is true with introducing mentalism into a hypnosis show. Not only is there no need, but it detracts from the state of mind you want in your audience.<<<<<

That wouldn't add value that would interrupt the flow of the a show. Who mentioned magc?Hypnosis and mentalism flow together one can strenghten the other.

I don't agree with the suspension of belief. The audience will be the audience. In any audience there will be a mix of believers non believers and inbetweens. that's what makes the shows work. The controversy and mixed veiws of the audience members even in the same company.

You can still disbelieve your senses and what you just witnessed and be blown away. Infact that is a much more powerful and desired state or experience you would want for your audience.

Hypnosis or mentalism is nothing like watching a film or a play. Suspension of belief isn't necessary. Infact these shows challenge belief to their limits. that's why they are a different kind of entertainment.
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