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mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-04-13 11:47, dmkraig wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-04-09 19:10, mindpunisher wrote:
Not really. For a singer or to get paid they need a considerable amount of talent.


Uh, not really. Singers and bands have been marketed (usually to younger girls) and made fortunes.

I own a device made by a company called Antares that automatically and instantly corrects an out of pitch voice (or guitar note, etc.) and makes it perfect. There are devices that can take a thin voice and make it thicker and fuller. Combine this with dance trainers, coaches to tell performers what to say and planted articles and you can still have huge hits and successful concerts. When they were starting out, the manager of the Beatles handed out money to girls to come and scream when they appeared.


Are you saying the beatles had no talent and never practiced? Or that their manager had no talent as a marketer of bands? Coaches do they not have talent? have they not practised for years in order to coach media personalities? These things are not within the reach of every band.

So are you saying then all we need is to pay someone to scream and we will be successful?

Your point only renforces what I said. Top singers take a lot of practice and whole range of talents to make them famous.

If you read the sales page of the course even that agrees with me.

The beatles had all of the above and one more very important element. Their timing was dead on. They also had some luck on their side. Years after as that market begins to peak then subside all the copy cat wannabees surface and go out and play for pea nuts until that style is no longer marketable.

Then the process starts again with something new and fresh. Being new and fresh and spotting the opportunity also takes hard work and talent.

With stage hypnosis you can get by on a modicum of talent. Its not difficult to learn. However to make it big you do need to get your timing right. Once the market is flooded then its unlikely you will get the space to achieve it.

Gee theres me being bitter and negative again. Maybe I should join fairy land with some of you on here and live happily ever after.
Dannydoyle
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All he was saying is that it does not take as much talent to be a singer as it used too.

Ask Mili Vanilli. Or the many who actually lip synch through the songs and concerts. Certainly Ashlee Sipmson was popular when she got caught.

Did not Elton John go after Madonna for lip synching?

As I said the comparison is weak.

As a matter of fact PICK a boy band in the past 20 years! Most are mediocre talent pushed by companies.

If you took your bitter cynical attitude you have for hypnosis and applied it across the board to other art forms, you would be outraged by these things. But your only goal seems to be to bash hypnosis in general except for how and where you do it that is.

Nobody was ever as good as you were, or will ever be as good as you were. We get it already and it is getting old. We get it you used to command high fees and for whatever reason, somoene ruined it for you and now the entertainment medium of hypnosis sucks and always will be low brow. Now despite every post you make being filled with bitterness, you are happy in what you were forced to turn to in order to make a living. Oh and you speak for the world. Give it a rest.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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On 2009-04-13 13:39, Dannydoyle wrote:
All he was saying is that it does not take as much talent to be a singer as it used too.

Ask Mili Vanilli. Or the many who actually lip synch through the songs and concerts. Certainly Ashlee Sipmson was popular when she got caught.

Did not Elton John go after Madonna for lip synching?

As I said the comparison is weak.

As a matter of fact PICK a boy band in the past 20 years! Most are mediocre talent pushed by companies.

If you took your bitter cynical attitude you have for hypnosis and applied it across the board to other art forms, you would be outraged by these things. But your only goal seems to be to bash hypnosis in general except for how and where you do it that is.

Nobody was ever as good as you were, or will ever be as good as you were. We get it already and it is getting old. We get it you used to command high fees and for whatever reason, somoene ruined it for you and now the entertainment medium of hypnosis sucks and always will be low brow. Now despite every post you make being filled with bitterness, you are happy in what you were forced to turn to in order to make a living. Oh and you speak for the world. Give it a rest.


Again your interpetation is way off. I don't see any courses online teaching you how to become Manili Vanilli or a popstar. So I reckon despite what you say its not that easy?

However there are dozens teachng stage hypnosis products. Therefore It would be safe to deduce that stage hypnosis is easier to learn.

Where am I bashing stage hypnosis. I saod that the big secret is that its relatively easy to learn compared to most things. I would guess 80% or more on here couldn't make it as a singer but with a bit of application and luck could make it as a stage hypnotist.

Again go back and read the sales page of the course this thread is about. I actually agree with him on this point. I agree with him on a lot of the things said on the sales page.

The onlt thing I don't agree with is that the market is an infinate bottonless pit that will sustain everyman an and his dog. Now where am I bashing hypnosis? I don't see what you are seeing Danny?

Perhaps you prefer to believe that to be a stage hypnotist it takes special powers or talent I don't know? I have nothing against hypnosis infact I love it. However Ive made it clear many times I hate the cheap mass marketing of it.

I have also made statements about the dynamics of a market which would apply to any market. Why you should react the way you do is beside me.

I don't speak for the world I speak for myself. Why would I give it a rest? This a forum its called contributing. If you don't like it stay up later and try to think of smarter comebacks. Or just learn to put up with it much like I put up with you.

Except you usually end up looking a bit sillier. Maybe that's whats making you bitter? I have to say youve made me smile many a time with your feeble attempts to have ago at me. Maybe you should give it a rest?
dmkraig
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[quote]On 2009-04-13 14:08, mindpunisher wrote:

---Again your interpetation is way off. I don't see any courses online teaching you how to become Manili Vanilli or a popstar. So I reckon despite what you say its not that easy?


That's because the most important thing it take to make a music star is money and a producer and a manager who know what they're doing. And perhaps they're not advertising on line. I live in Los Angeles and see lots of local ads for such things requiring only a cute face and figure.


---However there are dozens teachng stage hypnosis products. Therefore It would be safe to deduce that stage hypnosis is easier to learn.


Just about everyone takes courses in mathematics when they're in schools. Surprisingly, only a small percentage of them become mathematicians! And for every hundred people who buy a stage hypnosis product, if just one goes into the profession that's a lot!


---Where am I bashing stage hypnosis. I saod that the big secret is that its relatively easy to learn compared to most things. I would guess 80% or more on here couldn't make it as a singer but with a bit of application and luck could make it as a stage hypnotist.

Define what you mean as "make it." By my definition, 80% here could easily make it as a singer with a bit of application and luck.


---The onlt thing I don't agree with is that the market is an infinate bottonless pit that will sustain everyman an and his dog.

I agree. But I see no evidence that every man and his dog are trying to get into the market. And don't forget the women!
mindpunisher
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Making it is quite easy.

By getting up and doing a stage hypnosis show successfully and getting paid for it.

Personally I could never get anyone to pay me for singing. I doubt very much despite the weak arguments that the majority on here could. But the majority could get hypnosis work so long as the market was kicking where they are.

Do a search on youtube you might even find a dog doing hypnosis.

Despite the ads you talk about. Most people who get paid for live singing gigs can actually sing. Even at the bottom end of the market they can sing a lot better than me or most people I know.

The school reference to maths isn't really relevant since school is something we must do. And by definition is academic rather than practical.

I have no figures on the percentage of those that go on to do paid shows from these courses. I only say that the majority of them should they have the opportunity could pull off paid shows. Of course I could be wrong and over modest on my own ability and talent.

Also the singers thing: manufactured puppets are really not in the same catagory of true singers anyway. However they still rely on the talent and contacts of the promoters.
Dannydoyle
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Are you naive enough to believe EVERYONE who buys the courses is attempting to become a stage hypnotist?

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......start=30

They claim for $200 you can learn to sing. Have HUGE names like Taylor Swift.
Danny Doyle
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dmkraig
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On 2009-04-13 15:12, mindpunisher wrote:
Making it is quite easy.

By getting up and doing a stage hypnosis show successfully and getting paid for it.


I don't know if you've been to any clubs lately, but I've seen LOTS of singers who are horrible but who do shows and get paid for it. Success≠skill or quality.

Quote:
Personally I could never get anyone to pay me for singing. I doubt very much despite the weak arguments that the majority on here could. But the majority could get hypnosis work so long as the market was kicking where they are.


It would be easy to take a recording of you attempting to sing, do pitch correction, vocal thickening, echo, reverb, mix in with a band, and make you (or anyone else) sound like a professional. With a good producer you could lip sync your way to live success.

Respectfully, MP, stick to what you know, not what you don't know.


Quote:
Despite the ads you talk about. Most people who get paid for live singing gigs can actually sing. Even at the bottom end of the market they can sing a lot better than me or most people I know.


Like I wrote, you haven't been to many clubs lately! I seen people who can't sing become stars and people who are amazing singers never make it. When it comes to singing, you just don't know what you're talking about.


Quote:
The school reference to maths isn't really relevant since school is something we must do. And by definition is academic rather than practical.


On the contrary. It's completely relevant. Your posted assumption is that because there were lots of classes teaching hypnosis, people taking those classes must be becoming stage hypnotists. I'm pointing out that just because people take classes doesn't mean they'll ever use that information.

Further, you totally ignore the fact that to be a good hypnotist--IMO, at least--is about lifetime learning. You're assuming that every person who buys into a course is a new person trying to become a professional entertainer. I would suggest that a great many of those who take numerous courses from different suppliers are the same people looking for additional information that can either help them in their skills or give them the push to finally go pro--it's not a bunch of new people, many are the same people just buying from multiple sources. Further, I'm maintaining that most of the people who take the courses and may intend to become professionals never go through with it.

Quote:
I have no figures on the percentage of those that go on to do paid shows from these courses. I only say that the majority of them should they have the opportunity could pull off paid shows. Of course I could be wrong and over modest on my own ability and talent.


And without commenting on your ability and talent, you claims on others is 100% wrong. There's a big difference between theoretical knowledge of how to do a show and having the ability to pull it off. The number one fear of people is speaking in front of others. More people fear it than they fear dying. Based on that fact alone, most of the people who take those courses would be too fearful to set foot on stage.

Quote:
Also the singers thing: manufactured puppets are really not in the same catagory of true singers anyway. However they still rely on the talent and contacts of the promoters.


Hmm. Here in the U.S. we refer to what you're doing as "moving the goal posts." When it's clear that you're on the losing side of an argument, rather than admit it you attempt to change the argument. In this case, from talking about "successful singers," you change this to "true singers" and "manufactured puppets." Well, you can change the argument all you like, but the fact is when it comes to singers and the music industry, you don't know what you're talking about.
bobser
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Changing this ever so slightly, I'd like to think I'm a very good singer and very good at hypnotising people.
The thing is; singing for me is incredibly simple and yet I couldn't teach anyone how to do it... other than take someone who is already good and do some voice coaching, teaching them how and when to do a vibrato in a ballad, incoherently rasp in a rock song or bend a note on a slow blues number. But yet I would very comfortably take someone (with performance skills) and teach them hypnosis in either clinical or stage to a level where I'd expect them to pull it off to a watching audience.
As I read through what I've just written, if what I've written is true, and I believe it is, then I've ended up totally disagreeing with what I 'thought' I was going to say (LOL)!
Maybe the singing thing is obvious but also maybe there's more to being a hypnotist than meets the eye. John Chase, in his book Deeper & Deeper, wrote: "I can't teach you talent". I remember thinking of it as a WOW moment (I love WOW moments) when I read it and instantly agreed with him.

bobser
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Decomposed
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"I can't teach you talent"

Ha, so true and profound. Thanks, I needed that.

Candin
RobertTemple
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I haven't really heard of this guy before, however the course looks pretty comprehensive and its an impressive sales page.
Brent McLeod
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On 2009-04-09 13:01, mindpunisher wrote:

The fact is hypnosis largely successful due to cornering successsful venue's and milking them. Its more important to be a good marketer than a good hypnotist. There are more than enough good hypnotists around. Its the one's with the marketing machines that make the money. Or the one's that have cornered the key venue's.


If Danny moved here he would fall flat on his face. He's found a bubble that can be sustained. Most of those expensive courses promising you big fees and a big career are ********ting you into parting with your money.


Its true I can't make what I would consider good money over here. But niether can Mckenna or Andrew Newton even with their marketing machines.

Despite what you may want to believe it doesn't take that much talent. My venue in my home town I was more successful than Newton, Powers and Halpern who all played the same venue but never sold as many tickets.



Very good comments, my take on this is similar....

Andrew Newton for example comes out here to NZ each year or so and fails miserably with small venues

Why-Because his marketing is non existant and he hasnt realised the main area to achieve this here-Years ago maybe but he had no competition only plays 1 night and it doesn't work


Dave Upfold -is the busiest Hypnotist in NZ with a top show to match -I know as I have seen all the rest
and the quality of there shows which is not good, very slow too long and the Hypnotist wants to be centre of attention in each skit rather than the Volunteers who must always be the Stars of the show..

- Bar 1 other Hypnotist in Auckland who also does a very top show but they work different marketing venues etc.. but he is very good..

Why- Dave is successful-He is brilliant at Marketing with his background and it shows and has a specific audience and gets 15-20 theatre shows a month average crowd 350-600 per night
and always runs 2-3 nights at his Chosen venue-We have averaged over 1000 per night for 6 nights as well in Auckland in recent years at one venue alone..... but he knows the local market.

Andrew touring plays small RSA type venues -We attend a few as hes in the area when we tour all over NZ each year, if hes got 90-120 in the room hes lucky-some nights theres only 60.

We know by many contacts who attend the shows for us who else is performing & doing what and what there ticket sales are and what there charging.....

Its all about Marketing regardless how good your show is

Each Hypnotist entertainer Im sure has his own speciality areas etc so have to chase that side of things ..
Just my 2 cents worth on Overseas acts here at times!

Cheers
Brent
gmindmagic
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I asked this a long time ago, Please only if you actually have the course by Michaell Anthony could you give a review!
makethemagichappen
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I have purchased Michael Anthony's program and I must say it far exceeded my expectations. He really does present every aspect of the industry and gives incredibly insightful details that only a veteran performer like himself could provide. Every time I had a question in my head as I was reading, it would be answered within minutes. The best part was I made a list of things I wanted to ask Michael based on his suggestions and he answered every one of them personally. Its obvious he is successful at what he does and I did not feel there was anything he did not disclose in the program, I was very satisfied with what was advertised and what showed up at my door. If you have any specific questions, let me know and I'll be happy to answer.
gmindmagic
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If you don't mind I'll PM you with specific questions I had, Thank you in advance.
Vlad_77
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I have the course and I will post my thoughts on it this weekend.

In the meantime, the person who asserted that The Beatles paid girls to scream at their shows is dead wrong. Virtually every official and unofficial biography/autobiography has debunked this myth.

Ahimsa,
Vlad
bobser
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Well it simply happens to be true, and that's a fact. Not just a story I heard. Nothing wrong with it by the way. After The Beatles many other band managers took it up, and of course it worked very well.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Vlad_77
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My review is coming, and Bobser, I would welcome your debate about The Fab Four in a music forum Smile

Look folks, show business is a tough business no matter the area. Lucikly, we in magic/mentalism/hypnosis can make good money without the fame. In that sense, we have it all over musicians - especially those in Rock, R&B, and C&W. I think that the really tough part for US however are the stereotypes associated with the "mystery arts." Let's face it, we go into this KNOWING that fortune will HOPEFULLY favour us. You can have a well oiled marketing juggernaut and still not "make it." Certainly it DOES help and one SHOULD market. But, how many stories have we heard in show business of being in the right place at the right time? Or, someone attended a show or heard or saw something they liked? To use The Beatles as an example: EVERY major record label turned them down. Decca told Brian Epstein that "guitar bands are on the way out." So Epstein's literal final stop was EMI. And George Martin heard something he liked. Granted, at that time (1962) they were still quite raw and FAR from the being the biggest act in all of show business. But, if Martin had not heard that "something" (pardon the pun Beatles fans) then, rock as we know it would not be. And it all started because a few kids went into Epstein's record shop asking for a copy of "My Bonnie" - a record that The Beatles were merely backup instrumentalists for crooner Tony Sheridan. I have often wondered what happened to that A&R guy at Decca Smile

How fortuitous for Blaine that DeCaprio happened to see him performing on the street in the Tribeca section of New York!

As a musician, actor, and mystery entertainer, I have ALWAYS been taught to perform as though 20,000 people were in the audience - even there are only six. You never know who is watching! McCartney has a nice line for that as well: You never know who may be listening to you"

Ahimsa,
Vlad
Vlad_77
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For the OP:

Here are some quick thoughts to get you rolling before my longer review. Please bear in mind that it is 2:53 AM as I write this?

SHU is no dog and pony operation. The sheer QUALITY of the materials is uniformly excellent. Anthony lays it all out from staging to anticipating problems to contracts, riders, markets, etc. The Million Dollar Rolodex and Show Tools alone are PRICELESS for any entertainer.

And I see no problem with Anthony or ANY entertainer selling a system or course. Tarbell was a busy magician yet wrote one of THE essential courses on magic. More power to Anthony and any entertainer selling courses! Will SHU attain the status of Tarbell? Who knows? Ask the Mentalists Smile But, that being said, Michael Anthony DOES cover the bases. The customer support is excellent, and here is the best part: if you don't LIKE the course, you have 30 days to return it for a FULL refund! So really, you have nothing to lose financially, and savvy readers will be able to judge whether this specific course will work for them.

Review within a day or so forthcoming.

Ahimsa,
Vlad.
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