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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts 
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Your welcome. What Paul Harris is saying seemed related to what we're talking about ( what Tim went through at work ).
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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WolfGod Regular user 112 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-20 18:25, Mentalist Sam wrote: Absolutely nothing wrong with that. This place isn't exactly what I would call a professional gathering place. Quote:
On 2008-12-21 10:12, Christopher Kavanagh wrote: Not a joke, but an incredible simulation. Quote:
On 2008-12-21 14:21, Tim Jahn wrote: In a way it does relate to your point. It's amazing how little constructive discussion is actually passed around here. The majority of it is fluff. And to have your name connected to this place when trying to bag the elephants can negatively affect one's image. In this business, your reputation is everything. You can't afford to sully it. And if you don't understand his point about being "connected to trickery" I'm going to hazard a guess and say that mentalism isn't your focus. Successful mentalists don't want to be seen as just tricksters or connected to doing magic tricks. To quote Craig Browning, "Nobody wants to see a fake mindreader." So as you can imagine, most of them prefer to remain anonymous online because they'd rather not have their names connected with a teeming forum of tricksters with a hideously garish logo. Quote:
On 2008-12-21 16:58, Christopher Kavanagh wrote: Practice what you preach. |
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Mentalist Sam Regular user 173 Posts
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Thanks for the supportive post WolfGod.
You're right, this is hardly a professional's forum and there is nothing wrong with that. Amateurs are the majority in the magic community and have no reason to put forward a professional face or be concerned about their public image. I look at it this way - I am in show business. I am concerned about my outward appearance to the world. My living demands that. I spend a lot of time and money to make sure that my clients can be assured they are hiring a pro. They are spending a lot of money for me. I am also "old school" when it comes to being secretive. I protect my methods and in a public situation like this, I feel it prudent to protect my identity. You're correct about the fake mind reader statement. I am hired because my ability to read minds, not fool them. But whether you're an amateur or a pro, magic should never be perceived as something that can be just be purchased and it's secrets known by over 35,000 others on a discussion board. Just my two cents. |
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Matthew W Inner circle New York 2456 Posts
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Base, Double lift, thumb tip, expanded shell, Tapered cards, trap door
Google any one of these phrases in a couple of days and see how far you need to look to find a link to the Café in the results. Seriously, you have to be looking for this stuff in order to find it. I am not worried about it one bit. If they are looking up any of the terms we use, they have already learned what the term is, or had read a magic book and are looking for the props to do the trick, which would mean, they have a GENUINE INTEREST IN MAGIC! Stop worrying. As long as you don't say the marketed/published name of an effect to your audience, there is nothing to worry about.
-Matt
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WolfGod Regular user 112 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-22 20:34, Mentalist Sam wrote: True. If you don't plan on going full-time with this stuff, the Café must seem like paradise. Quote:
But whether you're an amateur or a pro, magic should never be perceived as something that can be just be purchased and it's secrets known by over 35,000 others on a discussion board. Just my two cents. I think of it as Houdini. He never let people know where he learned his amazing escapes. He never told them how many hours he spent working out and studying locks. And people's imaginations filled in the gaps with answers more fantastic than the truth. Who was the comedian who said, "When you have the truth and you have a really good story, you tell the really good story." Quote:
On 2008-12-22 20:35, Matthew W wrote: Who said they were Googling the technical terms? You don't need to put "double lift" into the search field to find any of the major retailers, the Café, or exposure videos and websites. It's like walking into a chocolate factory and trying to locate a candy bar of some sort. You may not find it immediately, but it won't take long before you do. |
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Matthew W Inner circle New York 2456 Posts
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Then tell me how they would find a dove pan? Or even exile for that matter?
Your analogy does not make sense to me. If you go to a candy factory to find a candy bar of some sort, you may not find IT immediately. Meaning something specific. People are not going to waste their time looking for something they saw someone do. There has to be some sort of interest in order for someone to go looking. How many people actually go looking for a magic trick method? There are magic enthusiasts, like their are roller coaster enthusiasts. Some can tell you the entire process of what it takes to come up with, design and build a roller coaster. They are not out building and designing roller coasters. Same thing with magic enthusiasts. They can tell you all sorts of methods, techniques and even marketed effect names. Are they performing magicians or even hobbyists, just people that really like magic and what goes into it. Who knows, they may be the ones to come up with some killer new effect!
-Matt
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3528 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-21 14:53, Mentalist Sam wrote: oh MAN! I gotta start using this line. I'll waste so much less time...
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3528 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-20 20:38, tedb wrote: Koz, you actually saw this on the Café? The same guy praising it on the buskers forum and then selling it in the for sale section? Totally despicable! ***edit*** I'm looking there now and see exactly who you are referring to, and it comes as no surprise to me... Pathetic.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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WolfGod Regular user 112 Posts
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Quote:
Then tell me how they would find a dove pan? Or even exile for that matter? It ain't that hard. Quote:
Your analogy does not make sense to me. If you go to a candy factory to find a candy bar of some sort, you may not find IT immediately. Meaning something specific. People are not going to waste their time looking for something they saw someone do. There has to be some sort of interest in order for someone to go looking. You'd be surprised what people will waste their time on. Quote:
How many people actually go looking for a magic trick method? Enough to make it a fact that they do exist. I'm not saying to be afraid of these people. They're only a threat if you're a bad magician. But the fact of the matter is that Google makes it very easy to find this site and others with only the simplest of key words. Sticking your head in the sand and denying that this exists is just as bad as overreacting to it. As Benjamin Franklin said, "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead." And unfortunately, we're dealing with a community of thousands, a lot of them bad magicians with no idea when to shut up. Keeping things a secret from the internet is going to be like herding cats. You can either accept that the nature of the information age has changed certain dynamics in our world and adapt to them... or you can deny these realities and fail to prepare for the inevitable. And yes, I have had to deal with a couple hard cases who said they found YouTube videos or whatever and figured out the trick. But I had a feeling that was going to happen at some point, so I was mentally prepared. In itself nothing new, magicians before us have been doing it for centuries. The issue just has a fresh coat of paint is all. |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3528 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-22 23:32, WolfGod wrote: I must admit I was quite shocked and even angered the first time that happened to me. To this day I still politely find excuses to not show that dude any of my magic, at all, ever, even now. Yeah... I hold grudges. What of it? 
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-22 22:54, gaddy wrote: Heck, he praised it here then put it up for sale. :firedevil: Tony |
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Futureal Inner circle 1695 Posts
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The entire messageboard should require a login to access. Then sites like Google wouldn't be able to access it.
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2393 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-22 20:35, Matthew W wrote: I agree with you Matthew. There are many more obvious exposure threats than the Magic Café. Not only has no layman ever mentioned this site to me, most magicians that I meet have never heard of this site or think it’s a big joke. IMHO it’s their lose.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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epoptika Elite user Florida 477 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-22 21:32, Matthew W wrote: After reading this post I entered "dove" and "pan" into google and immediately found a marvelously entertaining video on metacafe.com called "Dove Pan Magic Trick Revealed" made by prepubescent doofus on his parents back porch. Very funny. Does anyone really need the masked magician to tell them how this trick works? I mean really - this trick is right up there with the vanishing/appearing cane and Strat-O-Spheres. Everybody should read Eugene Burgers essay about magicians fooling themselves. But I digress.... Brad henderson wrote a column in the December 2008 issue of MAGIC magazine titled "What I Learned on my Summer Vacation" which is very informative and well worth laying your hands on. He points out that people ARE, in fact, looking up your secrets online. People with absolutely no interest in performing magic themselves. And they don't need to know the dealers name of the trick in order to find it. He points out that anyone with a Blackberry in their pocket can look up the secret to your tricks before your performance is finished if they feel so inclined. No, it's not the end of the world. But do not discount the reality and don't make it any easier than it needs to be for casual visitors to learn magical MO's. I have visited a number of magic sites in the past that required visitors to prove they had more than a passing interest in magic before they could gain access. A good idea in my opinion. (Hey, maybe the IBM & SAM should give that idea a try before they accept every Tom, Dick & Harry into their secret societies...? ) |
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epoptika Elite user Florida 477 Posts
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Oops. Please ignore the second paragraph of my above post. I should lock myself into seclusion while I am attempting to give up coffee drinking. Makes me downright cranky & irritable. My apologies. I don't wish to be part of any uncivil, off-subject discourse. A good article by Mr. Henderson though.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-22 20:35, Matthew W wrote: What planet are you on? When you have a web site like the Magic Café, that has a section called Gaffed & Funky This forum dedicated to discussions pertaining to the use of gimmicked or specialty packs (e.g, Invisible deck, Stripper, Svengali, Mirage, Split, etc). Topics may also include custom printed cards (e.g, Double face, 31/2 clubs, clear cards, Black Tigers and other odd varieties). or one called Trick coin trickery Discussions of tricks or effects which seemingly use ordinary filthy lucre, but do not ( Scotch & Soda, Coin in bottle, etc ) both of which are open to anyone who enters the site (no login necessary), then you have a web site that is openly exposing magic. Magic isn't rocket science. Just about anyone with an educational level of a third grader (my generation) or a High School Senior (present generation) can figure out how most of this stuff works. They may not be able to do it, but they can figure out how it works. And for the layman that wants to bust your chops, that's enough. Here's an example of how easy it is for people to find the Café. Google "Masked Magician." Once you get past the Wikipedia references, then you find the Café. Granted, it's not on the first page of the google returns, but if you are looking for methods, you will have enough persistence to go to page 2.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-12-26 16:01, Futureal wrote: If that's the solution why hasn't the Café moved in that direction? I always found it odd that anyone can visit the Café and search anything they want. Why is it open to the public so-to-speak? What's the advantage in that?? |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3528 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-01-08 09:08, agent61 wrote: you've gotta talk to Steve about that... It's a moot point as the proverbial "Genie is Out of the Bottle" at this point anyhow what, with Google Cacheing and all that...
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-01-08 09:08, agent61 wrote: The same reason network TV is open to the public. Sorry . . . there is no Santa.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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clamon86 Special user 508 Posts
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With youtube and all, magic is in public access that way. There's not much you can do about it besides, let him or anyone else for that matter phase out of it.
There are only so many experts and full time magicians that exist in the world, and the rest that are hobbiests, interested viewers, browsers, blaine-angel-buck twins-dev'vo clones, they are often the ones who seek advice, or worse pretend they are an expert on their subject and give advice and criticize others. Just like Josh Jay's new book, in order to learn something from the site, you require effort. That's an important point and will really seperate the people who want to make someting of it, no matter how big or small, from the people who want to learn secrets. The magiccafe does require a login, just not a fee or a quiz,(which may be an option. |
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Posted: Dec 22, 2008 02:43 am 
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