I just got done reading the add for Paul Harris’ CD set True Astonishments. I am sure it will be a excellent set of discs. However while reading the add copy, one of the selling points was the fact that the discs contained over 40 cookies of additional effects and interviews to be discovered!
I don’t know if I am alone on this or not, but I always feel jerked around when I buy a disc that has cookies. I am paying good money for these discs and not getting access to all the info they contain??? Why do this? Who does it benefit? Who is it fun for? Do people put cookies on discs just because they can? What is the motivation?

I've felt the same way, but just never said anything. Thanks for sharing!
I vote no hidden cookies. What's the point?
DP

They will probably include that info somewhere for the people who can't find all of them

I agree totally! Especially at the costs involved, everything should be laid out on a silver platter.

Of course. Here's my credit card, I want every secret you have. I don't want to have to dig and work for any of it. Makes perfect sense to me.

There is plenty of "dig and work" involved in understanding, practicing, routining and rehearsing any really good effect. If I want to waste my time with puzzles, I'll buy a puzzle book, thank you...

Thank you Manderin, that was a great reply. Pepka you are completely missing the point! How would you like to buy a book on magic and have one of the effects printed in Chinese. Would you consider the fact that you had to translate the text as a normal part of your learning experience? I would love for the producers of these discs to explain why the practice of hiding information is so prevalent? What is the POINT!

First off it isn't "cookies". The term is "Easter Eggs". Unless you mean there is a link on the DVD which takes you to a location on the Internet. Then I might agree.

Second, the publisher may believe that hiding parts of the product creates a fun and interactive product as well creating more interest as these things are found. It is a common practice in video games. Simple enough to find them by playing the disc on a computer. The buying public's opinion is important but I think you would find yourselves in the minority on this issue.

Third, these Easter Eggs are not in a foreign language so your comparison is flawed. They are in a hidden location. It is more akin to Blaine's hidden clues to his treasure found in his biography.

I just don't see the issue. In no time all the Easter Eggs will be exposed so you can find them with ease.

You are right Tom, Finding “Easter Eggs” on DVD’S is certainly not an insurmountable endeavor. I do see it as an unnecessary inconvenience. Maybe it is a generational thing, I definitely don’t play video games. However I do not accept your assertion that the majority of buyers enjoy Easter Eggs. Maybe we need a poll!!! Thank you for the terminology correction and Happy New Year to everyone.

Without getting into specific cases and as an old marketing professor, I find the practice well below professional standards. People are buying instruction and not a game.

Personally, I find the practice embarrassing to all involved. Certainly the producers are well advised to remedy this before it gets to court. Going to court will likely result in a finding of fraud in the inducement which will return all of the expenses of the purchasers. However, it will also destroy the privacy of the intellectual property and render it the equivalent of public domain. I hate to see that too!

As cheap as it is to reproduce DVDs today, certainly the most economical solution is for the vendor to replace the discs with a revised one that delivers what was advertised. The "game" version is a separate product and still could be sold separately but properly labeled.

Consumerism actually works. Ask the seller for a replacement or your money back. You'll both feel better.

I have nothing against vending games. False labeling is a separate issue. As a magician who owns intellectual property, I don't like public domain as the solution. As a marketer, I like integrity in labeling.

As a magician helping magicians, my suggestion is to work together on this for a refund or product correction. There is no reason to suspect that the vendor cannot deliver what was sold. At this point it is a mole hill. Keep the problem small.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

In what way is adding additional footage as Easter Eggs not living up to what was promised. It is BONUS material. Are you suggesting, Bob, that people also sue the makers of movie DVDs which contain Easter Eggs?

I agree with Tom. There is no false advertising involved. The add copy is very clear that in addition to True Astonishments, which is what you are buying in the first place, there are bonuses which are hidden as Easter Eggs (bonuses are free so your not paying anything additional for them).

What's wrong with a having a little fun and having to do some research to find these bonuses? If you don't want to take the time, then it hasn't cost you anything.

While I do think the use of Easter Eggs is a silly and insulting waste of my time, I see nothing in them that would be litigable. Like I said before I always have the feeling of being jerked around when I buy a disc with Easter Eggs, but a don’t feel like calling a Lawyer!!!

To me "Easter Eggs" are like rebates. What they really mean is that you are STILL not through paying for what you bought. (Only a small portion of rebates are EVER received by the purchaser. In effect they are really a price increase. Even if they are recovered it takes an additional investment. That is a price increase too!) That is hardly professional instruction.

As a professional marketer, labeled or not, I find Easter Eggs a very inferior product to combine with professional instruction. The two are simply not compatible. At best they are entertainment. That is not professional instruction.

As a market researcher, the fact that customers are actively voicing discontent should not be ignored unless this is your last product ever for that customer base. (Frankly, it may be anyway. Customers control that.)

The truth is that these are not "free goods". Buyers have paid for them and are required to still invest more. This is not a Disney DVD. It is for instructional purposes.

Call a game a game. They sell too but to a different customer base. I don't see a lot of difference in this practice and including with the purchase of a pistol form templates for notes to use in bank robberies or suicide. It insults the buyer. That is completely avoidable and unnecessary. Listen to your customers! They are the only ones who spend money with you. They make the decision!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- If you carefully read the label on an aspirin bottle and read it as you want this one read, it says:

For headache
1.) Take two tablets AND
2.) Keep out of reach of children!

My production company produces training DVDS (not magic related). Most all of our releases have Easter Eggs hidden on them. To date none of the Easter Eggs have been instructional in nature. It is always material shot specifically to be hidden. One time there was a short magic performance. Once there was a collection of lawyer jokes. We have done a couple comical skits and one short film. We DO NOT advertise this. Our repeat customers see it has a treasure hunt. It was their response to the first one that has led us to continue doing it.

I like this a lot better. Keep the main thing the main thing.

Your best sentence for me: "We DO NOT advertise this."

Customers are always right in the real world. Tell them what is for sale and deliver it without complication. The "free" mint afterwards is nice. No matter how many times a week we eat there.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

I really do not know if your post was sarcastic or just stating your opinion. But you already paid for it it should be there for you to view.

If you are being sarcastic I have a deal for you. I will sell you Stunners Plus for $10 dollars after I shread it and you can put it together..talk about working for the effects.

Thank you for starting this thread - though Easter Eggs aren't a terribly important subject, it needed to be said. I can't imagine why they would be a selling point, especially for something priced at several hundred dollars. I always thought Easter Eggs were a gimmick to appeal to kids and people with a lot of time on their hands. I'd rather put the work in on practice than on pressing buttons on my remote.

I can't stand Easter Eggs on DVD's. When I first heard about one having it, I thought how clever. Then....it got out of hand as almost everyone was doing it and the eggs, as a whole, weren't worth the time to look for them. 6 effects on a DVD, maybe only one was good. At that point, I didn't care about the eggs that were outtakes, etc.

Since the True Astonishments DVD set was cited in the first post, I'll go with those.

True Astonishments, for me, is different.

The DVD's have material that is taught, clearly listed. Anything else is a bonus, that they did not have to add. They were kind enough to say there are Easter Eggs. They didn't have to. Anyone buying the set is getting exactly what they paid for. The set, based on the effects listed and what I think is going to be underground, killer material, is already priced too low.

What if they didn't say there were Easter Eggs? What does it matter? If they deliver on what the ad said is taught, then we got what we paid for.

True Astonishments is a project, from what I read, like none we've ever seen before. It's not just a collection of tricks, but a journey. Paul Harris, if anyone is familiar with his thoughts on magic, has some very strong viewpoints. I feel he'd like to make a better planet earth, one astonishment at a time. And..he wants Magicians to improve and make Magic a true art form.

So, in this project, that has been 5 years in the making ( and all of Paul's life that lead up to this ) there's been like a treasure hunt of bonus material along the journey Paul will take us on. How fun!

If one or more of the effects was taught in Mandarin Chinese as a joke and this wasn't listed on the box, and you know had to take the steps to have it translated, then their would be a point in saying this was deceitful, not funny, bad form, etc. The hidden material doesn't keep anyone from learning the listed effects.

I understand the argument about Easter Eggs in general. But...I haven't found any DVD that had them that prevented anyone from accessing the listed material. So, I don't care if it's on DVD's.

True Astonishments is Paul Harris last GIANT project. He'll be around, helping others with their releases, doing the "Paul Harris Presents" effects/DVD's. But as far as a major DVD set, this most likely is it.

I love the Beatles last show on the rooftop. Some folks loved it...but some called the Police. The film showed them complaining about the noise, etc. What stiff shirts they were. They turned 30 and lost the inner child. The Beatles would have played more and we would have that footage today. But...the Police had them stop.

So....why not all of us join join Paul in having a bit of fun, letting the inner child come out? Most of life these days is like shoveling Sh%# uphill. How about for Paul, we put down our shovels and join in the fun.

Anyone?

Agreed! Couldn't have said it better! Just relax, and learn some great magic. Then when you've gone through every effect and figured out which ones you'd like to use and you think you're just about done with TA, go back and have a little look through and get totally caught up in this amazing set all over again.