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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
Lobo, for I only meant who was running the GOV now....
And no reply from the peanut gallery about the jamboree??? Mr bartlett??? didn't think so. Kevin
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-05 17:26, kcg5 wrote: I think the link you provided shows that the court does not think the way you do and the jamboree will continue being held there. Also it is not clear weather it cost an additional $2,000,000.00 to host it or if that is the normal cost of operating the fort complex. I also think it is a pretty good investment by the U.S. Military as recruitment goes. Sometimes the "gov" makes a smart move.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
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On 2009-01-05 17:22, LobowolfXXX wrote: Do you think a boy that is not a sexual predator, would want to join the Girl Scouts to meet girls?
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On 2009-01-05 18:13, Tom Bartlett wrote: I think we've actually hit the wall. The first hypothetical was posed by me, and involved a 15 year old boy who went to the mall because he wanted to meet girls; your response was something like "Yes, sexual predators do hang out at the mall." If you think that a going to the mall to meet girls makes a boy a sexual predator, then we're probably too far apart to get anywhere. I'd also suggest that if going to the mall to meet girls makes a 15-year old boy a sexual predator, then the BSA is doing a horrible job at keeping out sexual predators; the organization is full of them.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-05 18:23, LobowolfXXX wrote: I don't understand why a young gay boy would want to hang around adolescent boys that he has little in common with, no more than I would understand why a young boy would want to join the Girl Scouts unless he had something other than camping in mind. I think it would be impossible to determine which boy might be a predator in either case until it’s too late. It is better to err on the denying membership to the rare one that wants to join. To allow either to happen makes for a uncomfortable situation for all concerned.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-05 18:13, Tom Bartlett wrote: Hey, I was in the Girl Scouts and I'm not a sexual predator. At least not back then. My mother was a Girl Scout Leader and it was cheaper to take my brother and I out camping with the girls than it was to leave us home with a sitter for the weekend. I actually had a lot more fun camping out with the Girl Scouts than I ever did with the Boy Scouts as my mothers troop was far more organized and had much better equipment.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-05 19:13, Tom Bartlett wrote: Why does he have "little in common" with them? I even proposed for the discussion that he liked camping. If your definition of a sexual predator is anyone who hopes to meet someone he might be interested in, then certainly all social organizations aimed at teenagers are full of sexual predators, including the Boy Scouts. I guess the best that could be said for them under that definition is that in excluding female members, they at least try to keep the prey away.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
Now that I've recovered from the picture of Master Payne in a Girl Guide uniform that flashed through my mind (did they send you door to door selling cookies Payne?) I may be able to make some contribution.
While I doubt there are too many 15 year old sexual predators out there - from what I've read they are predominantly the prey - I would think an openly gay boy would be very little danger to straight boys - the boys would know who they are dealing with. The closeted, outwardly straight, inwardly mixed up and angry about his own sexuality type boy would be a bigger danger - and he would be allowed in, because he probably doesn't admit his sexuality to himself, let alone anyone else. It's a complicated old world - no easy answers. Destiny |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Quote: You seem to only read the things I posted that suite you and ignore the rest. Twist my words as you will, that is not my definition of a sexual predator, nor is that what I said.
On 2009-01-05 19:22, LobowolfXXX wrote: I do not now or have I ever openly or inwardly harbored any feelings of ill will toward anyone whose sexual preference is different than mine. I usually hold people suspect, when they openly show hate toward gays. I mean why should it bother them? Being responsible for the kids in your charge is a different matter, you have to eliminate circumstances that could lead to not only harm but law suites from the parents of victims. Law suites have changed the way almost everything is done in the U.S.A., sorry that’s just the way it is when lawyers get involved. It is cheaper to fight the “discrimination suites” than the “You allowed my child to be abused” suites. As far as sexual predators being that young, ask some one how has had real experience in the juvenile detention facilities, any where in the country and say you doubt it.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-05 23:25, Tom Bartlett wrote: You haven't offered a definition of a sexual predator, but I'd happy to hear it. I'm not trying to twist your words, or put words in your mouth. You introduced the term, and I've tried to infer your definition, fairly, from your comments. You listed a lot of demographic criteria upon which the BSA don't discriminate, and you left out sexual orientation. When I pointed that out, you said that you didn't leave it out, but addressed it with the comment that they try to keep out sexual predators of any age. That's not twisting your words; that's citing them. I asked about a teenager going to the mall because it's a good place to meet girls, you said Yes, many sexual predators hang out at the mall. You've introduced the term "sexual predator" and used it in connection with every situation that applies to normal teenage behavior - socializing and trying to meet people that the teenager might hit it off with, whether gay or straight.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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ElectricBlue New user 90 Posts |
>Being responsible for the kids in your charge is a different matter, you have to eliminate circumstances that could lead to not only harm but law suites from the parents of victims. Law suites have changed the way almost everything is done in the U.S.A., sorry that’s just the way it is when lawyers get involved. It is cheaper to fight the “discrimination suites” than the “You allowed my child to be abused” suites.
I don't really think that is a valid argument if it was then why do we have co ed schools? |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
LobowolfXXX,
I did say "Yes, many sexual predators hang out at the mall." I did not say how old or young the predators are. Yes sexual predators are attracted to places where young people hang out, so that they might have abundant opportunity. Do you disagree with that? We had a high school boy streaked at a foot ball game here in Tulsa, the boy is now listed as a sexual predators from now on. I do not agree with it but my disagreement does not change a thing nor does your. Every youth origination I’m aware of has ridged screening of the adult volunteers involved and is investigated as to their background. Most of these youth origination insist on training and education programs to try to avoid bad things from happening and that includes abuse, physical as well as verbal and also any type of hazing, teasing or bulling. It is getting so the layers will end up shutting down every worthwhile group and origination there is. ElectricBlue, It’s not what you or I think is a valid argument that counts, it is what the courts decide.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-05 23:25, Tom Bartlett wrote: Well keeping those nasty predatory homosexuals out of the scouts hasn't helped at all. It seems they lose a scout leader every two days due to abuse charges. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/2......145.shtm
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
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On 2009-01-06 00:14, Payne wrote: A bit exaggerated, but yes the law suites happen more and more. In most cases We adult voluntaries never allow our selves to be alone at any time with only one child, it for our protection as much as it is for the kids. LobowolfXXX, Your comparison of scouting, to the mall is not valid and I gave you one that was.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I wasn't trying to compare scouting to the mall; I was trying to compare a straight kid going to the mall to a gay kid joining scouts.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-06 01:09, LobowolfXXX wrote: WHAT? Joining and just going are not the same thing? What do you mean gay kids and straight kid, are gay kids crooked?
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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Destiny Inner circle 1429 Posts |
I disagree with Tom on many things and am not entirely with him on this, but let me say that while he is proudly right wing he definitely does not judge people by their sexuality.
I have had many enjoyable conversations with him and he says what he thinks and is a thoroughly decent man. Not so very long ago he was lumped in with myself, Payne, Balducci, Magnus Eisengrim and others as a pinko commie faggot by an unlamented former member who made Attila The Hun look like a PC bleeding heart liberal. Destiny |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
Destiny,
Thank you and yes you are right, I not only will stand with you but I will fight tooth and nail to defend your right to be different, to worship or not worship the god of your choice and protect you from real harm if it is within my ability to do so. I also agree with you about the BSA it was founded by a man who had certain ideas and beliefs and built an origination to attract likeminded people to join in participate in it and they are the one that should join. I have never understood why an atheist would want to join a church or other origination that stipulates a belief in God and then sue it to change it to suite him/her. I’m also a realist and there are lost of thing that I do not like but that does not change the way they are and most likely will never change. I have been in agreement and have disagreed with just about everyone here at one time or another and I’m sure that won’t change either, because no matter what your political posture, your religious belief or your sexual orientation, if we are in agreement I will stand with you if I agree.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-06 08:40, Tom Bartlett wrote: Bad analogy. To the uninitiated scouts doesn't look to be a religious organization. It appears to be a group focused on camping, merit badge earning and popcorn selling. It also looks to some to be a thinly veiled para-military indoctrination club. But that's a different discussion. So anyway to your average kid scouting can look to be a fun thing to do and many of his Friends might be in it as well thus providing an additional incentive to join. But then he gets in and discovers that they demand a belief in god to be a member. He didn't join because thought it was a religious organization. It's not called the I Must Believe in god Boy Scouts. It is simply called Boy Scouts. I know I certainly had no idea of the religious requirements when I joined and thankfully no one made a big deal about it at that time either. Perhaps they should adopt a don't ask don't tell policy. Do they also bar communists from joining the scouts? Most every other fraternal organization prohibits communists and atheists from joining their ranks as well. I'm sort of surprised the IBM and SAM don't have similar riders in their by-laws as well. Perhaps they do. does anyone know?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Considering the philosophical 'Age of Reason' intent of the Freemasons, I'm surprised they have maintained the same requirement.
I'm also surprised they still perform the same hoary old rituals that many a member probably simply tolerates as an endurable membership requirement.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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