The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Memorized deck routine (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
pegasus
View Profile
Inner circle
United Kingdom
8541 Posts

Profile of pegasus
I remember Derren Brown handing a deck of cards to his spec to shuffle, he then performed a deck switch (out of view of camera) and then riffled very quickly through the cards as if memorising the deck. He then gave the deck to the spec and proceeded to name every card as she dealt on to the table. I very much want to learn this routine and I am pretty sure Simon Aronson does a variation. Could anyone point me to any Books, DVD's etc that outline this routine?
Bobby Forbes
View Profile
Inner circle
virginia beach, VA.
1525 Posts

Profile of Bobby Forbes
All you need to do is learn a memorized stack. Basically all this routine seems to be is "practice" for you once you learn it because you are just merely naming the cards in your stack order.

Jaun Tamariz' book "mnemonica" is a huge 400 plus page book on this subject. Well worth checking out. One good thing is, after a few overhand shuffles and cuts and a couple faro's from new deck order, your in the mem deck stack Smile
Magicray69
View Profile
Veteran user
Tampa Bay
369 Posts

Profile of Magicray69
Yes! Switch deck to a set up deck (Si Stebbins) and you have a miracle!
There was a time I had the blues,

the reason was I had no shoes.

Until I met upon the street

a man who had no feet.
jstone
View Profile
Inner circle
Someday I'll have
1452 Posts

Profile of jstone
In my opinion, the best stack system to date is Richard Osterlind's Break Through Card System. You can get it from his site.
Donnie Buckley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1123 Posts

Profile of Donnie Buckley
I second that opinion jstone. If you did the Brown presentation with Si Stebbins or 8 Kings, the sequence would be noticed - this is NEVER going to happen with Osterlind's BTCS. It's my favorite stack too.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Bobby Forbes
View Profile
Inner circle
virginia beach, VA.
1525 Posts

Profile of Bobby Forbes
I learned osterlinds years ago as well. Very good thinking. I then switched to the joyal stack for a while, then decided to learn the mnemonica stack which I currently use for mem deck effects
Donnie Buckley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1123 Posts

Profile of Donnie Buckley
Hey Bobby,
I have the Taramiz book but have not memorized the stack yet. Osterlind has published some stuff on memorizing his stack. I know Juan included poker deals in his stack, and he also has the quick set up with faro shuffles, but I didn't think the quick set up was all so quick when applied to US new deck order... Do you think the Osterlind stack can be as strong if memorized as the Tamariz stack is? What do you think? I'm willing to memorize the stack I use, but reluctant to memorize another.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Bobby Forbes
View Profile
Inner circle
virginia beach, VA.
1525 Posts

Profile of Bobby Forbes
Of the few mem decks that I have learned, I'd say mnemonica was the easiest and fastest to recall. No mnemonics to remember, or words, or phrases. SO when you recall a card or a number, the association is immediate instead of having to decipher what this object, or what this phrase means then having to convert that to a playing card. Just takes too much time for me lol.

The osterlid stack is a great stack, and if you memorize it...thats even better!! Not only can you do mem deck routines with it, but even if you forget your mem deck, you have the formula to work off of Smile So I'd say it really doesn't matter which stack you go with.

I'm finding it impossible to forget any cards in the Tamariz stack simply because of the way I memorized it. I memorized most of the cards just like it says to do in the book. The others I used the Dominic Memory System.

Harry Lorayne has some great work worth checking out for memorizing pretty much anything IN LIFE LOL, including a deck of cards. If you have trouble memorizing a stack for some reason, be sure to look up Harry Loraynes stuff on the subject. Loraynes and Dominic Obrien's systems are the only ones worth checking out in my opinion.

So...The only real advantage I see in switching from osterlinds to Tamariz' would be the built in effects. Other than that, a mem deck is a mem deck. Hope this helps
Donnie Buckley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1123 Posts

Profile of Donnie Buckley
Thanks Bobby, that's what I thought as well. I've got to read the effects in the book - I only read the set up and memorization techniques.
Nice of you to mention the Lorayne memory work - I've used his techniques for short term memory stunts at parties in just casual settings. Once you know it, you never forget it and your audience finds it very weird...
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3064 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On 2008-12-31 11:55, DDecae wrote:
Do you think the Osterlind stack can be as strong if memorized as the Tamariz stack is? What do you think? I'm willing to memorize the stack I use, but reluctant to memorize another.


You didn't ask me, so my apologies for the unsolicited advice, but the general concensus on stack work is that strength is relative to need. Both the BCS and MS allow for a ribbon spread to show apparent randomness, which is very important to some people working from a stack. The other key thing to consider is that if you're going to be working with cards in a set order, why not have that order be useful to you for different kinds of effects? Mnemonica has a TON of built-in features (poker demos, spelling, Mnemonicosis, etc.), but whether or not these features are important to you is something only you can answer.

Incidentally, The Aronson Stack should also be a part of any discussion where people are discussing prominent stack options. There's also the possibility of just inventing your own.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Donnie Buckley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1123 Posts

Profile of Donnie Buckley
Thanks Andrew. I need to read the effects in Juan's book to determine if the poker demos are worth it to me. That's really what I need to know. I primarily use the BCS for mental effects, but Juan has made me consider extending the usefullness of the stack. If I'm going to take the time to memorize a deck, it should be an order that is versatile.
I think I should also read what Osterlind has written about memorizing his stack - I've really LOVED this stack for years.
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Steven Keyl
View Profile
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
2551 Posts

Profile of Steven Keyl
Anytime mem deck work comes up I'm always amazed at (seemingly) how few people are on board with a tetradistic stack. Most people think of Si Stebbins but there are other stacks out there that are tetradistic and look a lot more random. I use the 30-minute memorized deck from Doug Dyment's Mindsights and it's terrific. Custom mem decks e.g. Aronson or Tamariz do have a lot of built in effects for poker deals and spelling effects but tetradistic stacks have an incredible amount of built-in effects as well due to the nature of the stack.

There are trade-offs to both but I'm always surprised on these forums at disparity between the usage of these different tools.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

Come visit Magic Book Report.com!

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
Donnie Buckley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Cleveland, Ohio
1123 Posts

Profile of Donnie Buckley
OK, I'm intrigued... I just googled Dyment's Mindsights and found his web page. I'm ordering the book. Thanks for the guidance Steven and for word "tetradistic"!
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Kjellstrom
View Profile
Inner circle
Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe
4952 Posts

Profile of Kjellstrom
Remember,
its a huge difference between a system stack or a memorized stack.
I think many thinks its the same.

Great info about stacks:

http://www.joyalstack.com/Pages/MemorizedDeck/Main.html
Harry Lorayne
View Profile
V.I.P.
New York City
8470 Posts

Profile of Harry Lorayne
You know, I just have to straighten out a couple of things. I went into the Link suggested above. Please. I'm told that applying MY method would take MONTHS, anyway - weeks - to memorize the order of a stacked deck? Please! There's a chart showing, supposedly, how long it'd take to learn the system of card memory I've taught in a number of my books as compared to the "six-hour" system. That's a joke to me to begin with. Sure, it takes a bit of time to learn the method I teach, but, what this Link doesn't tell you is that once you know my system - you can memorize any stack, a shuffled deck, in MINUTES. Please!! Just had to get this off my chest; feel better now! HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
The Amazing Noobini
View Profile
Inner circle
Oslo, Norway
1658 Posts

Profile of The Amazing Noobini
Do any of you think that this kind of use of a memorized deck weakens subsequent magic effects? It could perhaps seem to the spectators that if you have this ability to memorize a deck in seconds, then your ability to know which card they removed in the next effect is somehow linked to that.

Or will they not retain that line of thinking through a few false shuffles in between?

I realize that the effect itself as proposed in the initial post, is tremendously impressive. I'm not at all opposed to the idea of trying it out myself. I just fear that perhaps you are wasting the power of the open index for later effects.

Myself I used many many months to memorize the Aronson Stack to the point of being able to use it fluidly. But I don't feel that it matters that I could have done it differently. It was right for me and that time is behind me now anyway.

Somehow I suppose I feel that using a memory system to memorize things rapidly and having your own stack that you always work from are two separate (wonderful) things.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Dennis Loomis
View Profile
1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
I've never understood the purpose of memorizing the Osterlind Breakthrough Card System. While Osterlind does some real miracles with it, it is really just a tool to allow you to determine the next card or the previous card when you know the identity of one card in the stack. (Usually the top or bottom card.) With a memorized deck you know these two cards and you know them MUCH faster because it's simply recall, not a math based process. But, with a mem-deck you will know the location of every card in the deck. That's why a true memorized deck is a far more powerful tool.

So, if you're going to take the time to memorize a stack, whether it's Aronson, Tamariz, or any of the numerous others, you will have the advantage of being able to use any of the built in effects at any time. Sure, you may not need them or want them all the time, but they are there when you do. The Osterlind System has no built in effects. Sure, you can do many effects with it, but the order of the cards does not allow for built in Poker Deals, spelling effects, etc. And, with a true mem-deck, you can do ANY of the effects possible with the Osterlind stack, but the reverse is not true.

I'm convinced that the two mem-decks with the most usable magic built in, or discovered later are the Aronson and Tamariz stacks. However, you may have some favorite card routines that you do a lot that require a set up. Why not create your own stack, incorporating them into it?

Incidentaly, the ORDER of the cards which Aronson or Tamariz uses is NOT a memorized deck. It becomes a mem deck for you when you memorize it. Many of the built in effects in the Tamariz or Aronson stacks can be performed without having the cards memorized.

Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
JanForster
View Profile
Inner circle
Germany ... when not traveling...
3861 Posts

Profile of JanForster
Dennis, you are so right, just nothing to add! Just one thought: Why do people invent systems to replace a memorized deck? It takes more time to work out such a system than actually learning any stack! Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de
plungerman
View Profile
Loyal user
283 Posts

Profile of plungerman
As for using mneumonic devices for memorizing, I cut to the chase and jut wrote big numbers on the card faces once in ASO. Took a few weeks commuting on the train to get through them and remember them. This is what Aronson suggests in his book; the mneumonic devises will fall away once you have the cards associated with their position. I think this is how Juan has you do it in the first place, and behind a locked door.

I liked Jaun's effects but some are really quite a few faros away from the starting point. In addition his order did not strike me as "random" as the Aronson. Mind you, NDO qualifies as one of many random orders.

P
Lawrence O
View Profile
Inner circle
Greenwich (CT)
6799 Posts

Profile of Lawrence O
I have the cards, I have the stack but I have no personal train for commuting (and I work very near from home): do you know of another solution? Let's listen to Harry, perhaps.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Memorized deck routine (4 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.23 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL