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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magicians of old » » Robert Houdin quote (12 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Pop Haydn
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I don't see your point, Laurie. I saw nothing impossible in Marceau's performance. If he walked invisible stairs over my head, I would consider that magic. There are two ways for the artist to create an experience of the impossible for the audience; either through vicarious experience through the eyes of characters in a story--narrative theater, movies, poems, novels--or through the presentation of a demonstration of the impossible in which the impossible thing convincingly happens before them--Our Magic.
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On Mar 30, 2021, Pop Haydn wrote:
he walked invisible stairs
Leo H
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Mime is not magic. There's nothing mysterious or inexplicable about it.
magicalaurie
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On Mar 30, 2021, Pop Haydn wrote:
Most actors pretend to do... magicians seem to actually do


This is what I take issue with. If you want to call a magician an actor, it doesn't serve you to use language that misrepresents or diminishes what actors do. Many magicians, unfortunately, already have a misconception about what acting really is, but that's because they are not educated about acting. They are however, precisely the folks who will take the ball you've given them, and run with it.

Leo H, mime creates illusion, "makes the invisible visible and the visible invisible". It is allied very closely with magic.

I understand your point, Pop, but I think there are issues with the statement as-is. That's all.
Pop Haydn
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How is what I said diminishing to actors? Actors pretend to do the impossible, the audience suspends disbelief and plays along, even if they see Peter Pan hanging on a rope. They make no pretense that what they are doing is real. They don't try to "prove" the impossible at all. They want the audience to consider and experience the impossible in their imaginations. The magician has another task. He creates a convincing experience of the impossible for the spectators.

The actor enacts a story for the audience to contemplate and participate in, through empathy and imagination.

The magician creates an experience that the audience experiences as real. The story they tell later is the story he constructed for them to tell.
Julie
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2021, Pop Haydn wrote:
...The actor enacts a story for the audience to contemplate and participate in, through empathy and imagination.

The magician creates an experience that the audience experiences as real. The story they tell later is the story he constructed for them to tell.


Hi guys and gals. I do not think any magician's audience believes any magician is demonstrating "real" magic, do you?

However, a talented mentalist just might generate or stimulate "real" believers...why?

Julie
Pop Haydn
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Mentalists generally present themselves as real. Magicians present themselves as fakes--Our Magic is a burlesque of charlatans. The audience "knows" that the impossible didn't happen, even though the evidence of their brains and senses tell them otherwise, mainly because of the presence of the "magician." The presentation of magic is an accepted form of theater--a preposterous thing is proposed, and then convincingly demonstrated. It is not the same as narrative theater.

"Acting" is an artform, but like the techniques of magic, can be used for other purposes. Thieves, con men, spies, marketers, diplomats and many others may use the technique of acting for purposes other than art.
magicalaurie
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Perhaps because the mentalist makes the "subject" the focus and seems not to be working on home turf but rather "trespassing" on what some audience members think is "private property". The way a skunk traipses in such carefree manner across "your" backyard. Smile Maybe a fanciful description. Smile

What are your thoughts, Julie?
magicalaurie
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I'd like to add that Kreskin gave me a piece of advice, and talking with him after his show I was inspired by his focus on and apparent interest in every person he spoke with. My sister told him she works in a library and, you can imagine... Smile To me, he said, as I was walking out the door, he called after me, "Inspire their imaginations!"



A little citation for my previous post Smile:

Again, I'd like to hear your thoughts, Julie. Smile
Pop Haydn
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[quote]On Mar 31, 2021, Julie wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 31, 2021, Pop Haydn wrote:

However, a talented mentalist just might generate or stimulate "real" believers...why?

Julie


Uri Geller presented magic effects such as spoon bending as a real mental ability. People believed him because of his good acting, highly developed character and obvious seriousness and sincerity. People bought money printing machines from Yellow Kid Weill for tens of thousands of dollars. Any magic trick can be presented as real and convince the spectators, but that is not Our Magic. That is charlatanry.
Julie
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2021, magicalaurie wrote:
Perhaps because the mentalist makes the "subject" the focus and seems not to be working on home turf but rather "trespassing" on what some audience members think is "private property". The way a skunk traipses in such carefree manner across "your" backyard. Smile Maybe a fanciful description. Smile

What are your thoughts, Julie?


Simply put, "real mentalism" seems to be in the realm of real possibility because many individuals have experienced a real event(s) i.e. a happening with no plausible explanation other than it is "real".

To date, no one has reported "real magic" because virtually every bit of observed magic has an "obvious explanation".

It doesn't matter whether the explanation in the mind of the observer is correct or not. If he/she sincerely accepts that explanation, then there is no real mystery.

The GOOD NEWS is the majority of our audience is willing to suspend these thoughts and enjoy the show. That is what makes being an actor--or maybe even a magician pretending for a short while to be a real magician--so much FUN.

Julie
Pop Haydn
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I would say this gentleman would not agree that there is an obvious explanation:

magicalaurie
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It would be more convincing coming from him, maybe. Smile

Thank you for your thoughts, Julie! Smile
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