Sorry Justin. I was just in a really pi**ed off mood when I wrote what I did as I was still seething about the YouTube incident. No, nothing really wrong at all with bringing up the subject but I suppose I felt it misdirected. People are bound to step over the line at times a on any given forum site from time to time. It happens on occasion on my forum sites and my moderators usually take care of it if they happen to notice it or if it’s brought to their attention by another member. If you or anyone should notice such an issue it’s up to you or anyone else as a member to either point it out to the offender or bring the issue up to a moderator. After all, that is what they are here for and it’s their job.

YouTube in and of itself is not an evil thing but how it’s being used by children in either exposing tricks by them by being poorly performed and or, also going out of their way to purposely expose them is indeed a VERY touchy issue with me and always will hit a nerve with me.

As for children there are times when I can understand why Lions sometimes eat their young! I have a daughter who is 37 years old and a 5 year old granddaughter but they all reside in Boston and I hardly ever see them. I’ll freely admit I’m definitely not a kid person but hey….that’s just me and I make no apologies for it.



I’m not at all sure that I really understand the question?
Why would the so called masters be upset with me? I never went around and publicly exposed their secrets but, then again I’m not at all too clear on your question. I learned mostly from reading, going to lectures and talking to guys from Magic Inc. like Bruce Krenz, Jim Bernstein and of course Jay Marshall and of course from all of my experiences in making gaffed cards professionally for many magicians. (which I no longer do)



As far as I know all tricks/gimmicks have some name of some sort, i.e., “WOW”, “Fraud”, “Paper Clipped”, “Extreme Burn”, etc., etc. Giving the “name” of a trick however when it’s being performed is beyond stupidity! When I use “Multi Dimensional” I don’t start out by saying; “I’m now going to perform “Multi Dimensional” or, “My next trick will be “Extreme Burn”.” Any magician who uses the “name” of a trick should not be a magician and more than likely has the I.Q. of an egg timer. As I pointed out in my post that the girl I know simply typed in “bill changing trick” on Google and came upon “Extreme Burn” on BoobTube with some bed wetting punk doing it and exposing it.

Again, to reiterate my feelings it seems to me that any anger as to tricks being exposed should be directed towards BoobTube and not worry too much about what may or may not be talked about too much on the Café albeit if it happens as I said before….report it!

Most kids will not go beyond BoobTube and come here as most are hooked on videos and the quick fix. From what I can see is that most have the intelligence of an ameba and don’t know how to spell much less let alone know how to read. Before I came here I was on another magic site and it took me about four days before I realized that it was oriented towards the younger people. All the posts were like reading a text message with grammar and spelling that was abhorrent beyond reasoning. I was actually told by one of the moderators (who I imagine was somewhat older) to shorten up my posts and responses as most of the membership will get bored beyond three sentences and will not go beyond that! Sorry….seems as though I’m going off on a bit of a tangent here but I’m sure you get my point.

~gaffed~

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gaffed wrote

I was actually told by one of the moderators (who I imagine was somewhat older) to shorten up my posts and responses as most of the membership will get bored beyond three sentences and will not go beyond that!

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ROTFLMAO!!!!

That's the God's honest truth Pakar!

Anyway, I had forgotten to mention one other very relevant point as to BoobTube and magic being exposed as to children. Ponder upon this if you will. How many times have you seen posts as to new effects and there prices being raised up [and praised by it being done so by many members/magicains] simply to keep it out of the hands of children?

Would this price increase have happened 10 or so years ago simply because of these imbeciles buying them and then exposing them? I think not. Magicians are now raising their effects/gimmicks to very high prices to simply keep them out of reach of children and then performing/exposing them on the Internet!

It's a two edged sword now. We now have the computer age, videos, powerful search engines and easy access to just about everything. No more need to do work and go to the library and or buy books. Yes, by all means it's quite nice to look up a new trick and see a short demo video on it but then again, it is killing magic with the very same stroke and prices are being raised for that very same reason! Sorry, but I don't have the answer but as time goes on you, I, and every other performing magician will, and are, going to pay the price.

~gaffed~

I do not believe the Café is a threat to the art of magic. I think that measures such as the Secret Sessions and simply refraining from getting in depth into method in the public forums are sufficient. As far as forum posts, I think sometimes we become a little paranoid about how much we say, and we worry that it will lead to someone discovering the method of a trick. It takes less information in a post for us as magicians to deduce the method than it does a non-magician. What we perceive as a detailed explanation of how to do an effect, a non-magician may think is gibberish.

I firmly believe that in our presentation of an effect we should generally stay away from the name of the trick. There are of course some effects that, regardless of whether the magician mentions the name of the trick in the patter or not, are pretty simple to search for (think of all the tricks we do, whose names are a description of the effect).

I remember when I saw there was a video teaching the Elmsley count on You Tube. I later realized that this and a number of other video tutorials are not major threats to us because in the videos they use the name of the sleight to trick. I doubt that after seeing a trick, a non-magician is going to search for "Elmsley Count." There are definitely some videos that pose a larger threat, but perhaps not as big of a threat of exposure as we think.

I think that another problem that we don't pay enough attention to is that these exposure videos are ripping off the creators in magic. No matter who watches and learns a trick or move, the maker of the video should not teach or expose material that they did not create (regardless of patent, copyright etc.) unless they got consent from the creator.

Even if you can find stuff on the Café without being a dedicated member, it still takes effort and study. The masked magician, THREW everything at anyone who turned in and made them feel foolish for being taken in by it.

Of course in an ideal world that would be true. But, do you actually think an eight year old is going to do such a thing? From what I can ascertain is that those who are even of high school age on BoobTube are lucky if they can spell their name let alone knowing what a patent is or a copyright!

Then again as far as I know they are only doing something that other magicians would consider as ethically wrong. I don’t believe a copyright and or a patent on a trick/gimmick prohibits someone from exposing it to their hearts content as long as they make no claim to it being their trick, gimmick or idea. I fear it’s a losing battle.

~gaffed~

Hey Justin,

I have owned and run two forum sites for some years now and I can honestly say I've never seen anyone change their avatar so frequently!
Sorry....a bit off topic but it just finally hit me! lol

~gaffed~

I totally agree... youtube ruins a lot of magic.

I was just thinking about this subject. I remember when such words as the one in this thread:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=2&47

were spelled B******r.....

as far as youtube, check this thread (The op posted it on numerous magic forums):

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=2&73

I just read that thread. Wow, what a different perspective. It hasn't changed my opinion, but it has made me more open-minded.

Matt