Im pretty sure this would be the right place to post this.

So, I watch some magicians perform and I notice that the do a funny bit. and ill see another magician and he does the same thing. even though I know that the first one invented it. My question is, is it alright to pick up bits and pieces that belong to other people? I hear somepeople say "learn by watching others" or "pick up things from others". Like say, I used some comedy from the amazing johnothan, jeff hobson, mac king, chipper lowell, oscar munoz, mike caveney, john carney. and even people who arn't magicians, like comedians. Using some oth their one liners or gags with props. is that ok? or is that just wrong?

also, say your still looking for your style, and you see a magician whos style you like and you are comfertable with and is kind of like your personality, is it ok to take after that person, let them be your role model in a way to be like them, but overall just be yourself?

I am asking you this because I want to know YOUR oppion on what is right or wrong. Also, If I see something that someone says in a show or a little bit that they do, I probably would anyways, but would it be a good thing to ask if you can use it?

an example in my case is I have seen chipper lowell a couple times and really liked him. I was just afraid to even attempt any of his stuff. but not that long ago at school I did a couple of his gags and some of mine in a mixed style and I had my class mates rolling with laughter. I told them all who inspired me to do that stuff. would it be smart to do it on stage?

1 more quick thing, I noticed. Is I was watching Copperfield doing the floating rose, and its awesome, then I saw on a video a different guy doing it to the same music, it was different than Copperfields, but would that still be considered stealing? I wouldn't do that because I have learned to use my own music and stand out from the rest.

again, just a few questions that I have been wondering about for quite some time now.

I appreaite ANY help and comments.

thanks,

magic mike

I suggest not to copy other people's line or material.you'll never know one day they might be watching your show and hear their own line or see their own material being ripped off by you.

Let me ask you a question.

Think of the future. You have spent 10 maybe 20 years on a certain effect. You have spent countless hours with lines, moves, and every aspect of this trick. You have but your heart and soul into this trick. You have put blood, sweat and tears into this.

Do you want someone to just come along and do it?

If it is not published, stay away from it. There is PLENTY of published stuff out there.

I'm okay with people asking about material they wish to use in some way. But simply copying is something pigeons do and we are supposed to be a little better then pigeons.

Thnk you sooooo much for your oppions. If I were to spend that long on something and have someone just take it....I auctually wouldn't mind, just because Im the kind of person who likes to give back to the comunity and enjoys to make others happy. I know everyone is different, so some people would want to heavily guard their stuff.

also, I would never use something that is like a total belongs to someone bit, I'm thinking more of a small gag that's maybe a second long that I find funny. I mean Im just a kid. and as I get older I don't want to use ANYONE elses material but my own, but don't I have to start somewhere?

I would never even use a word someone says without asking, and if they said no, I would stay away from it.

I am reading books with pubilished material, and someof it I like, the rest to me is garbage, I need stuff I can see, then transform it, and change it up a bit to make it different and suit my style.

again, I wouldn't copy, I would ask to use a little funny piece that might not even belong to them.

thanks,

magic mike

I believe that Copperfield once said that you should start out by imitating the style of someone you like and then your own style will develop from that. Please correct me if I'm wrong about him saying something like that.

No, I don't think you should outright copy someone. When they are first starting, I think that most do imitate (intentionally or not) those that they look up to. Just do your best to make each effect that you do your own in some way. Don't perform something that is not public domain or that you have not obtained in some other legitimate way.

Thank you,

again, I will not copy an act or strictly from 1 person, I am just asking if it is ok to use 1 little line someone else says with their permission.

thanks,

magic mike

"With their permission" all things are possible.

Walking in with a recorder or a pen and paper is not good.

In 10 or 20 years you may be supporting your family with magic and your own creations and lines. Now you don't get a job because someone showed up with the same act word for word cheaper.

Still think of it as "giving back" in some way?

I auctually woun't mind, Just change the act up. of course I would rather know before that they are doing it. But seriously, Im not talking about a whole act, Im talking about even saying hello, its 1 small thing.

again I thank you a bundle for your post.

magic mike

Sorry, I think I miss understood your post.

well that would be a bummer, but usually the ones who come up with the material make it farther than those who choose to steal. Plus I don't see myself as becoming just a magician and supporting my family off that, I would also want to be an illusion builder.

but I do understand where you are coming from.

thanks,

magic mike

Well it almost seems, maybe not is, that you are looking for a reason to justify behavior.

Taking one line without permission is just as wrong as taking 2 lines, and as wrong as taking a whole act. Where would you put the line at? 4 lines? 10 lines? 2 tricks? Where is the logical end?

Taking ANYTHING without permission is just wrong all by itself is it not?

What if you came up with a concept for an illusion and someone took that? Knocked it off. Happens ALL THE TIME. Is that wrong? Of course it is.

I think you know the answer to this question. Broken down it is pretty simple really.

You are totally 100% right.

although Im not sure what you mean by justify behavior?

But I'm just talking like 1 line or gag. in a show that is filled with my own or others that were taught to me, I do though think theres maybe a little bit of a difference between using with permission a gag, and tasking an ENTIRE act. That would be just wrong.

Of course I would hate to have an illusion of mine knocked off, but it happens, and its a good thing that their are good people out their who do the RIGHT thing and buy only from the rightfull owners.

thank-you

magic mike

A case in point, I was working on a gospel routine for "Gypsy Thread," when I came across a member's post that shared, IMO, the most eloquent scripting I had ever read on the type of effect I want to perform. After working on my own script, I PM'd him asking permission for allowing me to use his script as a core of my own. He was completely gracious and willing. Now, what does the mere act of asking cost? If he had denied my request, I would have moved on. It never hurts to do the right thing first.

Steve

P.S. I think we can all agree that there are "stock" lines, greetings and retorts that have become a part of the "public domain," i.e., "stand right here on the trap door," "That was my name when I was a little girl," etc. So, a little common sense, please.

You have the right mind,

thank-you

magic mike

Taking one line is JUST AS WRONG. No matter how much of your own stuff is there, that particular line will always be lifted. You can't say it is "only one line" and make it better.

This concept escapes a LOT of people.

I agree with Dannydoyle.
Stealing one line and then saying it's okay is the same as saying that it's okay to steal $1 but not to steal $100.

Asking permission to use a line is a completely different thing.
It's honest.
If you don't get permission - don't use the line.

You can't get "a little bit pregnant".

Why do you call it taking?

I wouldn't take $100...I would ask someone to loan it to me. I am NOT taking or stealing. I wouldn't be supprised if every magic has stolen without permission something from someone else.

Im saying, If someone, who wrote the line, used it in their show, and was THEIRS, told me that I should use it in my show, personally I would.

and I would much rather have someone steal 1$ of mine, than $100....that would just suck.

I don't mean to come off rude, apparently in some of my paper work I seem to do that. I just want to know everyones oppion and state my own. Thank you everyone who has helped post, you have gave me a lot of information!

thank-you

magic mike

If I may add - in my opinion there are magicians that do steal - lines and routines.

Some of them are in the opinion that if they can justify it in some way - like that it was past published (by the way if it is published than in my opinion most of the time that is fine. What I am talking about is a magician that see's another magician do something and perhaps it is not published and it may be an original bit that the performing magician may have come up with on their own.) - or that just taking one line - well then that's OK.

However if they copy another person's work even when they get away with it and the audience that they may be doing it for doesn't know - in my opinion they would still be a copy cat.

Back in the old days my dad came up with an original escape trick called the rope tie. This became the feature of his act and his signature piece in his act. He performed this trick at magic conventions - on TV - and in the top night spots of his day.

Yes magicians copied him and his trick. One magician even ripped off his whole act word for word. Some people say that when you copy another magicians stuff that they are paying some kind of a tribute of respect and say things like - imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

In my opinion flattery is like perfume - nice to smell but don't ever swallow it.

Magicians that work and do magic shows today - like magicians in the past did - they work hard to come up with lines and bits of business that make many tricks that they learn from books - more entertaining to an audience. I think that this is where a lot of "originality" happens in magic today. Not so much in original tricks or the technique in the tricks - but the original way that a magician might do them by the original bits of business and entertainment gags and lines that they learn - when doing the magic for an audience.

And if I may add that by doing magic in front of an audience at times the audience will give the magician lines and bits of business that they can add to make the trick more entertaining. This is where the originality happens and it takes - sometimes - many years of hard work to get there!

Now let me ask you a question. After spending many years working out these many original bits of business in front of audiences - while doing a standard trick like lets say - the head chopper. Would you like another magician to copy a routine or a line - from you?

My dad did not like it.

I do not like it.

In my opinion a lot of magicians are lazy - today and yesterdays magicians in my opinion. Because it is easy - to copy - but it takes work to develop originality. And in my opinion a lot of hard work.

Some people say that it is OK to copy a magician you like - in their style and then if the do a lot of shows - then they will somehow develop their own style and their own originality will emerge or develop.

Although I understand this kind of thinking but in my opinion the most original thing in my show is "me". Having said that the most original thing in your show is - I hope "YOU"!

And I may be wrong but I can't see that coming out in a show when a magician is copying someone else. But it makes a dandy excuse or a way to justify a magician that wants to copy another magicians line - or lines - or perhaps their signature trick or maybe their whole act or show.

But I still think that the most original ideas come from working and the performer just being himself.

Just my opinion.

Thank you very much, what a great oppion! It was fun to read.

of course doing a signature trick or act or partial routine is wrong, unless the routine is a classic. If someone asked me if they could use 1 of my lines I would say yes. but if they asked if they could do basicially my whole act, well I would say no, so I see what you mean. I still have a long time to find my own style, and Im not quite sure how.

If a magician who invents a routine, which Im going to say shawn farquhars shape of my heart routine(witch is the most beautiful card routine I've ever seen)If someone comes along and decides to do that exact thing, It could NEVER be as good as the original. so even if someone wants to be a copy cat, it will not benifit them in anyway.

I do want to be myself, but heres an other question, what happens if being myself comes out as being like someone else? like I am just being myself, and someone thinks Im imatating someone, what would I do?

My mentor who taught me most of everything I know also taught me the patter, I use that patter in my shows...is that stealing? its not word for word, but its close, that's just how I was taught to do the tricks.

thanks,

magic mike