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Rajat Mittal New user London 98 Posts |
I was looking around for ideas on a force that could be used while (genuinely) blindfolded. I currently use the criss cross force, and this normally works fine, but wanted to give myself one more option for when I'm performing for really sharp company.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance. |
Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Confusing question. If you're genuinely blindfolded how can you glimpse the top card in order to do the Criss Cross Force? And if you can, why not use ANY force. Am I missing something here? HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
Jay Mahon Special user 983 Posts |
I hear ya Harry, Raj's logic is a touch flawed. I think he is talking about a force from a deck that he knows some information, i.e. top card, or bottom card. Perhaps the limitations are the classic force, but even that can be done with cards behind your back, you can hold a break knowing the top or bottom cards make a pass/cut and still force a card.
So Raj, you can do ANY force you like and as Harry mentioned if you are genuinely blindfolded you can't peek, so get that information before you are blindfolded. J |
Rajat Mittal New user London 98 Posts |
Sorry, I should have provided more info.
As Jay correctly guessed, I am at a point in the routine where I know the top card - from information the audience gave me while finding another selected card in an earlier phase of the routine. I am sure I can alter the handling and get the known card to another position if the force requires it. I thought I had a very good classic force, but clearly my handling is vastly inferior to Jay's. I don't have the confidence to do it blindfolded. The way I do it, I rely a lot on timing to get the card to "arrive" at the spec's hand, and I don't think I can do that if I can't see where their hand is. Also, this routine is quite tightly composed, with each phase setting me up for the next one, so I don't have the option ps resorting to an out if the force fails. If you looked at Al Koran's "Miracle blindfold act" in routined manipulation (vol 3 I think) you would get an idea about the type of routine I am talking about. In this context, I wouldn't feel confident enough trying to do a blindfolded classic force. The other constraint is that I don't want to use any quick or apparently skillful movements. This is because in my presentation, I really play up my disability (not knowing if the deck is face up or face down for instance). It would thus look odd I think to do anything but the most basic actions ? I even avoid a simple riffle. So I?m not comfortable with ideas based on a slip cut for example. The method I am playing with at the moment is a top palm, spread the pack and ask them to touch a selection, which I apparently place on top but add on the palmed card while squaring the deck. This sort of works, but now I?m thinking that if I was really unsure of handling the cards, wouldn?t I let them take the card out of the deck straight away? It?s only a small moment in a long routine, but it bothers me. I hope this provides more context for my question. Thanks for the help so far. |
Uli Weigel Inner circle Berlin, Germany 1478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-12 03:18, Rajat Mittal wrote: Why don't you use the gimmick utilized in Koran's routine? It's perfect if you're genuinely blindfolded. I speak from experience here, because I perform a variant of the Koran routine. |
vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
How about behind the back force,,the cek is cut and spectator takes a forced card.
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LLL Inner circle 1574 Posts |
Cut Deeper force would be your best bet.. completely hands off.. just make sure your very clear in your instructions..
Andy
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-11 15:29, Harry Lorayne wrote: Harry, you're missing the fact that some people wish to put unnecessary limitations on themselves. |
Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Okay; a few suggestions (and, of course, I'll be accused of "plugging") - in THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 2 (Reputation-Makers section) is my re-write and update of The Behind The Back Force. In a few of my books you can find The Lorayne Force, which might fit perfectly here, if handled correcly. But - if the deck doesn't have to remain in any set order, the easiest, most obvious. is - double cut the top (known) card to bottom and do a simple Hindu Shuffle Force. No need to see when you do that (even if not blindfolded you should turn away when doing it) and there's really no way to louse it up. HL.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
Rajat Mittal New user London 98 Posts |
Harry thanks for these ideas. Yes, unfortunately I can't use a Hindu Shuffle because of a set up, but I think I'll certainly look up The Behind the Back Force (Thanks Vinny for suggesting this as well - I presume you meant the same force?).
Uli, I certainly do use the gimmick that Al Koran uses in my routine (nothing better for the purpose I think), but I just read through his routine again, and found that Koran doesn't use that gimmick for a force. The two forces in his routine are a Hindu force (which doesn't work for me in this part of the routine), and the 10-20 force. Personally, for the kind of audience for which I would avoid the criss cross force, I would avoid the 10-20 force as well. Paul, I don't appreciate being referred to as "some people" and resent the attitude that comes through to me in your post. If you read my reply to Harry’s first post, then you realise that I have answered his question in great detail, so I am not sure what you are trying to say here. Do you have a suggestion that you beleive can help me simplify unecessary complications? I would be glad to receive your ideas if this is the case. Would be nice if you directed your suggestion to me though, rather than to Harry. Once again, thanks to everyone for their help. Raj |
Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Raj, I resent the fact you consider there is an attitude in my post! However, if you perceive that to be so, there is not much I can do to alter your perception.
I addressed my comment to Harry as he was a little confused as to why you could not use ANY force. Some people do put unnecessary limitations on themselves, and if you are doing so then you are amongst them. Some people like to drive, some people like a drink, some people like to read, some people like to go to the cinema. I'm one of those 'some people' and don't feel negative about it at all. I was speaking as someone who has forced cards whilst blindfolded. I've used different methods in different routines, one would certainly not apply here and the other you've already discarded, the slip cut force which is easy to do whilst blindfolded and takes far less movement than: "... a top palm, spread the pack and ask them to touch a selection, which I apparently place on top but add on the palmed card while squaring the deck." With a card top palmed spreading cards from hand to hand doesn't sound too good and if the cards are spread on the table placing a card on top then adding the palmed card above it doesn't sound so good if you're blindfolded. Also if you are blindfolded why do anything behind your back (one of the other options mentioned) you supposedly can't see anyway! Ultimately it's the overall effect that will be remembered rather than the way you had the card selected. I'd recommend you bite the bullet and do a slip cut force which at least leaves the cards in your hands under your control and is sure fire, and see how the complete routine is received. But since you probably think I'm an ###hole you wouldn't listen to me anyway and I will refrain from posting on any future threads of yours in case I accidentaly upset you . Paul. |
Michael Peterson Inner circle is where I'm trapped, because of my 4071 Posts |
The force from Bill Goldman's One for the money could be done quite effectively blindfolded.
Mike |
Rajat Mittal New user London 98 Posts |
Sorry Paul. It is my fault I misunderstood the tone of your post. I thought you were being dismissive of my post and implying that I am wasting everyone's time on "unnecesary" things. I apologise.
I actually think that spreading cards from hand to hand is a perfect cover for a palmed card. I prefer it to a slip cut because the it is an extremely natural way to get a card selected - fan the cards and ask them to touch one. It is the sort of actions one would do if one was blindfolded. Slip cuts are clearly easier and efficient, but I think the handling is a bit fancy for what I'm aiming for. I haven't actually read about the behind the back force yet. I didn't realise that it requires one to have their back turned. I assumed it would just be something I could do without turning my back. |
Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Re: "it is an extremely natural way to get a card selected - fan the cards and ask them to touch one. It is the sort of actions one would do if one was blindfolded."
There is no natural way for having a card selected blindfold because its not a natural thing to do. But I also agree with your earlier assesment in that having a card selected that way it seems more natural to have them take one and look at it rather than touch one, manipulate it to the top so you can add a palmed card for them to look at. Here's an option. Your card to be forced is simply on top. Simply spread the cards from hand to hand quickly requesting they say stop. Break at that point, comment you'll put the card they stopped you at on top, do so, reassemble the deck then Double L### to show the card. To me the pause in showing the card seems justified seeing as you are blindfolded and reassembling the deck and they never touch or take the card. But I never thought the slip cut force fancy Paul. |
Uli Weigel Inner circle Berlin, Germany 1478 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-12 14:58, Rajat Mittal wrote: But you COULD use it for a shure fire force (riffle force, dribble force or what have you). That's what I do. |
Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Try the Hofzinser Fan force, or variations thereof. This can be made to look very good, like you cannot possible see what you are doing. The fan should be made with two hands, as if you are feeling your way along, since you are blindfolded. The lack of sight will actually help this force, rather than hinder it...
Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Rajat Mittal New user London 98 Posts |
Ah yes! the Hofzinser Fan force. Totally forgot about that one. Really like the sound of that. Thanks Paul.
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
Shouldn't any force that doesn't disturb the stack/rest of deck be applicable?
A dribble force, for instance, can be done blindfolded...
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
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Logan Five Inner circle Northern California 1434 Posts |
I do a slip cut force while my head is turned away from the spectator..so I don't need to use a blindfold.
Self concept is destiny..
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