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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Pendragons New Illusion DVD set (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mark Holstein
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I don't post much, but I was surprised by some of the less than positive comments here. I've seen 3 of the 4 DVDs. They are, in a word, extraordinary. I suspect (but don't really know)that part of the motivation here was to document an impressive and even historic body of work. Can anyone credibly dispute that the Pendragon's version of Metamorphosis is the final word on this illusion? Not me. To have the details documented in this way creates a record of this work for generations to come. What we wouldn't give to have this type of record of Thurston's or Kellar's work.

Beyond this important value, the DVDs show the detailed thought and hard work that has gone into these illusions. Charlotte and Jonathon take many years of hard fought experience on each of these effects and pull it together neatly. Any one who thinks they'll be able to put together their own presentations without similar blood, sweat and tears is missing the point. There is much to learn here.
ClintonMagus
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Quote:
On 2009-01-26 15:29, Mark Holstein wrote:
I don't post much, but I was surprised by some of the less than positive comments here.



I guess I missed those. The comments from those who have watched the DVDs seem to be overwhelmingly positive...

One thing I was surprised at when I saw them last year was Jonathan's candor when talking to me, knowing I was fairly knowledgeable about illusion. He told me about many of the struggles he (they) had faced since the accident and he told me about some of the changes they had made (and were making) to accommodate his newfound limitations.

In this age when so many famous folks don't even have the time of day for regular folks like me, their attitudes were very refreshing.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
Powermagic
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The point of the prject is to help performers improve their act in vid #2 dedicated fully to one effect. Hmmm. So it does NOT teach how they perform the effect and just talk theory. If so I am wrong but if they are teaching or showing their methods they are giving it away for $35 a disk. I do not think I have to see the video, if the L&L description is accurate. However if they do not expose their methods, then I will admit I should have seen the disk first but based one what I read in the ad, they are also showing "the work"
Maybe someone who has seen it can verify.

Look, you know them so you are taking my comments personal. I admire and respect their work over the years. This is why I was more concerned that for something they wil not sell allot of over time nor make it rich off since they do not have one card trick for the average magician who buys stuff out there, it still seems to me that there is more to the story than just wanting to preserve something for the magic archives.
Thre are only a few reasons to GIVE AWAY secrets. To make money, because you need money or you do not care about the secret any more (and want to cash in) If a secret is that special, that creative, that much work put into it, why expose it to any kid with $35 of birthday money? Many magicians forget the power of the secret. They do not live up to the old ways.

SOmeone else commented how many magicians wold give so much to see some of the works on film of the greats of the 1920's or earlier. First let me tell you. I have Thruston Illusion Show Work Book which does this in pictures and you might be let down. It is amazing how worn and beat up the props were and one wonders if the illusion of history is greater than these shows ever really were...
But we also have to admire people like HOOKER who did not just sell his secrets to his card rises. This makes magicians even this day, even after the recent show they did of the act, if these were the exact methods and if so, the majority of the people fooled and saw this recreation, were not tipped off at the end. The secret was not put on DVD after the show, an impractical one at that. I am sure many of us would LOVE to see it. But most would never USE it so why would we be entitled to the secret.
But as I said, in the case of some of the Pendragon material. If they want to give it away for cheap, I will take it...

Quote:
On 2009-01-26 12:47, Chezaday wrote:
I think the point of this project is to help performers improve their acts .. not just to give things away. I still haven't had time to watch the set, and I think it's unfair for you to comment on them, when you haven't seen them.

I think there is more to the story here, the background and development to many of the illusions are included. It is important to understand some of the thoughts and theories when adding an illusion to your show.

I know both Charlotte and Jonathan are passionate about their work .. they would never "sell-out."

Steve
Xiqual
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Quote:
On 2009-01-30 23:11, Powermagic wrote:
The point of the prject is to help performers improve their act in vid #2 dedicated fully to one effect. Hmmm. So it does NOT teach how they perform the effect and just talk theory. If so I am wrong but if they are teaching or showing their methods they are giving it away for $35 a disk. I do not think I have to see the video, if the L&L description is accurate. However if they do not expose their methods, then I will admit I should have seen the disk first but based one what I read in the ad, they are also showing "the work"
Maybe someone who has seen it can verify.


There is so much more to performing illusions than the secret. If you want to do the sub trunk, you have to buy one or at least plans to the trunk itself.
DVD 2 is mainly all the little things that make this illusion great.
James
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Powermagic
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You can spout that sort of stuff all you want, it does not erase the fact that if you have a backstage view, are being taught how they perform it, it is exposure no matter if you are a magician or not.

[quote]On 2009-01-31 08:19, Xiqual wrote:
Quote:
On
There is so much more to performing illusions than the secret. If you want to do the sub trunk, you have to buy one or at least plans to the trunk itself.
DVD 2 is mainly all the little things that make this illusion great.
James
Xiqual
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I suppose you learned from the secret order of Mason's which under penalty of death you must not reveal the secrets right?

Are you a performer? I am. I work 5 or 6 paid shows a week on stage for strangers under all kinds of conditions. I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but audience members pretty much know it's a trick. From there it's not a far jump to think there must be a hole in the box. The magic comes from efficient and elegant movement. That is what is being taught.

The subtrunk has already been done by the masked magician, we all yawned and then forgot about it.

By your standard, all books and DVDs are exposure. If that is your opinion, we have nothing to discuss really.
James


[quote]On 2009-01-31 15:41, Powermagic wrote:
You can spout that sort of stuff all you want, it does not erase the fact that if you have a backstage view, are being taught how they perform it, it is exposure no matter if you are a magician or not.

Quote:
On 2009-01-31 08:19, Xiqual wrote:
Quote:
On
There is so much more to performing illusions than the secret. If you want to do the sub trunk, you have to buy one or at least plans to the trunk itself.
DVD 2 is mainly all the little things that make this illusion great.
James

Still with the Chinese circus Smile
Powermagic
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Boy your really are not thinking this over. Don't worry, most magicians live in this illusion.

ERRR Duh, YEAH any DVD or BOOK telling you how the magic is done IS exposure of the illusion. RIGHT? What else is it then. Sorry you do not like the word "exposure" but that is all it is and I understand you do not want to admit that.

OK, if the method to your "tricks" are not important and obvious to your audience as you say, I will stand in front of your show as they walk in and hand out a pamplet describing each and every one of your effects and how you do them with photos and stuff and lets see if your reactions are as strong.

Please I have heard this argument before and it is weak. Secrets are important.
If you do not think so. call yourself a clown or storyteller but not a magician.

BTW, while YOU know the subtrunk and while the masked freak might have showed a method, the viewers do not know if it is the real method.
AND THANK YOU for supporting my view point. What made the Pendragons different, how they twisted the minds of magicians and even those who saw the Masked show, is that they did it so fast and had the split cloth that most, even though they new it had to work like the box they had at home, still could not get the speed or know how to have a cloth split down the middle and not see the transformation in progress.
I say most since I assume you are going to say you found it easy to figure out.

SO yes, I still stand that if what they did was different and special and they are selling it for $35, yes I do have some sadness about it.


Oh and PS, they way I do it, I have them up on stage get in the box kick it and all sorts of stuff and NO Sorry to break it to you, MY audience never suspects a HOLE in the box since they have seen it examined and shown from every angle.

Sorry yours is so obvious
Xiqual
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LOL, anyway, have a great day.
James
ps
May I suggest anger management classes?
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
James Adamson
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This set of DVDs should be seen by all magicians not just illusionists. There are so many great tips and ideas provided.

I must say I was surprised on how much detail that they go into Metamorphosis. Basically every aspect is covered!

Another thing that comes clear in the DVDs is how important Charlotte is to presenting the effects so strongly. She is incredibly strong and that allows them to use much smaller h****** than most would use. Jonathan actually says that she is much more than an assistant, which is definitely true. By theirselves they would not be near the same caliber they are together.

The only misleading item is the listing under the Levitation section of the DVD.
" Levitation
360 Degree Levitation Discussion
360 Degree Levitation Demonstration
360 Degree Levitation Hoop Passes"

It leads one to beleive that they are going to tip all the 360 levitation which they do not. He does show the original prototype, but the leviation is never shown performed and no in-depth discussion of the handling is provided. However, this in my opinion is a L&L mistake (should have not been listed on the ad copy), not a purposely left out section. Besides it really does not matter that the 360 info is not deeper as the DVDs really are speaking more to the performance of the effects and the handling tips rather than the method.

Even if you do not perform illusions you can and will learn from the DVDs. For those that are doing illusions, you definitely need these DVDs.

And yes they are still performing as they will be at The Winter Carnival Convention in about 3 weeks from now doing the entire saturday evening show. I can not wait to see them.
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
Jay Mahon
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Christopher Starr (Toronto)
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I ordered my full set 2 weeks ago and they are still in the mail. That will teach me to live up here in Canada! Can't wait to get them though, and all your reviews make me sure that they will be worth the wait. I'll let you know soon.
Christopher Starr
Starr Entertainment Inc.
KidShows.ca
Toronto Canada's Family Entertainment Specialists
1-866-50-STARR
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