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MiketheMagicDude
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Quote:
On 2009-01-21 11:23, Michael Paul wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-01-21 05:25, goldeneye007 wrote:
Last point: I'm sorry, but concerning the very end of the routine (again, I'm sorry but I prefer not to tell too much): why the hell would you do that??? In the pdf you're told that the heat is over, so you do something that, imho, is not logical at all... and could look suspicious, even if, it's true, people won't understand how you did that. But I wouldn't do it two or three times in a row to the same people (the ad stats "The effect is instantly ready to be performed again with a different spectator, and a different card": I guess it means "with a different spectator" FROM ANOTHER GROUP...).




Two quick things. You've obviously read the entire pdf, and so you know that I've only included the last part of the routine you are refering to, to be complete and offer every idea I've had on the topic. Why the hell would I do that? I don't. I state right in the pdf, that I do not perform that bit, just as I do not use the script also included for another part of the effect. The item is only there for your information purposes.

And yes, by stating that it is ready to go again with no reset, I do mean for a different group... I'd never do this effect twice for one audience. You are correct in assuming that.


including this will contribute to bad habits and practices of some who choose to use this part...which should never happen

to me that'd be like making the finally to a C/S coin routine magically chaing the coin so now one side is copper and the other side is silver.
MiketheMagicDude
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Quote:
On 2009-01-21 10:02, Michael Paul wrote:
As a side note, anyone that has spent some time looking over the notes (that would be nobody, as the notes where released less then 24 hours ago), will realize that the value here is in the routining, and theatrical set up of the reveal. There is a no-mental work way of arriving at the same conclusion. I'll write up a word file today, and make it available to anyone who has freak and is unwilling to put in the real work.


seriously?!

how long does it take to read 10 pages?

I actually read through it 3 times before I posted the first time, because I thought I must have missed something.
Maynard
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JamieD, nice touch with the 2 spectator decks. Adds a level of security to those of us troubled with the finish. Thank you.


Quote:
On 2009-01-21 14:57, MiketheMagicDude wrote:
I actually read through it 3 times before I posted the first time, because I thought I must have missed something.


MiketheMagicDude, I felt exactly the same way. I was sure a page or 2 were missing.

Must add too that Michael Paul has cleared some things up for me thru PM which is appreciated.
Michael, maybe a small video of you performing the effect would be of benefit, just a thought.
Marc Frese
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I also bought it.
And Michael Paul did not lie!
And the price is moderate!
It has one interesting idea! I find it actually not at all bad!
For absolute beginners is not this trick! Good foreknowledge is must!
I will try it out.
Believe the trick is very interesting!

I would see also gladly a real performance!
Marc Frese
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Hands off - Yes and No (Is not really important also!)

The effect counts - not as it is reached!

Only such a thought!



Sorry for my english!
Michael Paul
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Quote:
On 2009-01-21 14:53, MiketheMagicDude wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-01-21 11:23, Michael Paul wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-01-21 05:25, goldeneye007 wrote:
Last point: I'm sorry, but concerning the very end of the routine (again, I'm sorry but I prefer not to tell too much): why the hell would you do that??? In the pdf you're told that the heat is over, so you do something that, imho, is not logical at all... and could look suspicious, even if, it's true, people won't understand how you did that. But I wouldn't do it two or three times in a row to the same people (the ad stats "The effect is instantly ready to be performed again with a different spectator, and a different card": I guess it means "with a different spectator" FROM ANOTHER GROUP...).




Two quick things. You've obviously read the entire pdf, and so you know that I've only included the last part of the routine you are refering to, to be complete and offer every idea I've had on the topic. Why the hell would I do that? I don't. I state right in the pdf, that I do not perform that bit, just as I do not use the script also included for another part of the effect. The item is only there for your information purposes.

And yes, by stating that it is ready to go again with no reset, I do mean for a different group... I'd never do this effect twice for one audience. You are correct in assuming that.


including this will contribute to bad habits and practices of some who choose to use this part...which should never happen

to me that'd be like making the finally to a C/S coin routine magically chaing the coin so now one side is copper and the other side is silver.


Hi Mike, I'm sorry, but I guess you can't please all the people all the time. I've released a working effect that I've used as part of my real world work for years. I've released it exactly as I perform it, and it kills. I've included extra ideas to be complete, and then go on to explain that I don't use that detail because I don't find it useful. Take it or leave it, it's there for your consideration. I've recieved critizism now, as the method (which makes the effect as direct as it reads) is more involved then some had hoped. This effect is pleasing to me (hence it's inclusion in my act) because it meets certain criteria, and acheives a level of directness and cleanliness. It's a profesional calliber piece. Sometimes, to acheive these things, you have to put in more work... and I understand that not everyone has the desire to do so.

On the other hand, I've also recieved a number of emails, pms and comments about how other performers love the idea and look forward to using it. To each his own. I think you'll agree that I never commented that the effect is hands off, self working, or real magic. You've pm'ed me to express that you haven't the ambition to work through the method. That's a shame, as to acheive this effect as it's described, a level of commitment may be required. That doesn't make the effect a bad one. It just means you choose not to make it work. However, any effect worth performing is worth learning... not just mine. I can tell you honestly Mike, that I've spent much more then a mere ten dollars on an effect only to find that it wasn't for me... and I never asked the creator for a refund because of my distaste for the method.

My job is not to tailor my methods (water down my magic) to magicians in an effort to sell more e-books, it is to impress my real world audience and then in some cases, offer those ideas to the magic community. Some will love the ideas, others will not find them as useful. I respect everyone's oppinions, but comparing yourself to a battered wife after clearly stating that you haven't the ambition to learn the effect is tasteless.
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On 2009-01-21 11:23, Michael Paul wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-01-21 05:25, goldeneye007 wrote:
Last point: I'm sorry, but concerning the very end of the routine (again, I'm sorry but I prefer not to tell too much): why the hell would you do that??? In the pdf you're told that the heat is over, so you do something that, imho, is not logical at all... and could look suspicious, even if, it's true, people won't understand how you did that. But I wouldn't do it two or three times in a row to the same people (the ad stats "The effect is instantly ready to be performed again with a different spectator, and a different card": I guess it means "with a different spectator" FROM ANOTHER GROUP...).




Two quick things. You've obviously read the entire pdf, and so you know that I've only included the last part of the routine you are refering to, to be complete and offer every idea I've had on the topic. Why the hell would I do that? I don't. I state right in the pdf, that I do not perform that bit, just as I do not use the script also included for another part of the effect. The item is only there for your information purposes.

And yes, by stating that it is ready to go again with no reset, I do mean for a different group... I'd never do this effect twice for one audience. You are correct in assuming that.


I think I did not make myself clear when I spoke about "the last part", my mistake: by "last part" I meant "the revelation" of the card. Of course you don't have to do the VERY last part... For me the revelation is just weird... The logical way to turn a card over is... well... to turn the card over... and not do what you suggest to do... especially in this kind of effect. Again: who would do that? But again, that's my opinion.
Ben
MiketheMagicDude
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I asked for a refund because I did not get what I paid for.

If I ordered a book on how to fix my car and it gave a description of how a car worked and then it told me to go to mechanics school I would send it back.

Similar situation here.
JamieD
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Well after a day of performing it, I can say the reactions are wicked. I can assure you. I don't think it's fair to say this is completely not worth it. It think it's a nice idea and I've quite a bit of time to think it over and cosider different things about it.

MiketheMagicDude, I think your points are very justified and I must ad mit I were far less impressed then I would like to have been. My suggestion is, it plays very well to an audience. So how about trying to play around with the effect and make it more hands of. I've began tinkering with the method and found ways to exicute the end of the trick with far less "heat" on my hands when I need it not to be. I urge you, despite your thoughts (which I have to) and give it a go but give your own flavour to it. Perform it a few times for freinds/family and then see how you think it plays to an audience. I think there is potential in this effect although we have yet to find it properly.

JamieD
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK
goldeneye007
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If you don't know a lot of other methods, why not give a try to this one.

I'm sorry, but there is a routine out there which I quite often perform and which, imo, is far better than Freak, but which is already a little complicated; when buying Freak I thought, from the ad, that I would get a similar effect, which it is, but a lot more practical, which is absolutely not. Again, I'm not blaming the ad, but there are other things at play which are not covered by the ad, and that the creator obviously cannot tackle for various reasons.
Ben
matthewmello
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JamieD I agree completely. I think we as magicians feel like we need to be fooled or impressed by a new method everytime something is released. But, we fail to realize how it will play for real audiences. After reading through the manuscript I immediately thought of how this would play in my restaurant work. I can't see it not getting amazing reactions. All I care about is what my audience sees and remembers. This effect will without doubt get the job done.

Also, for people complaining about the method/setup...there are some obvious alternatives. For instance you could do this effect with only one gimmick. The one used when the card is turned over. I think the whole "you never see the front or back of the card" is more for the magicians benefit and selling purposes. But, you could just as easily get the information another way and then continue on with the routine that Michael describes. Again, method isn't important, its the effect the spectator sees.

I'll be performing this at my gigs next week and will let everyone know how it goes.

Matthew Mello
goldeneye007
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I've received a nice PM from Jamie who kindly shared his thoughts on the effect and who suggested a few modifications which were quite sound. Actually, like you Matthew, he is considering making the method less complicated. And I think it's great! But why do you do that? Maybe it's because, from the ad, we all thought that other things were not in play... Maybe it's because, just as the ad states:

Quote:
1. Magician places a single card onto the table in full view.

2.Spectator is given a pack of cards and asked to peek at any card. She doesn't have to show anyone else the card, there is no force, she doesn't need to speak the card, or pull it out of the pack. You never see the front or back of the card. If she is dissatisfied with the card she peeked at, she can peek another, until she gets one she likes. She then hides the pack away (or keeps it as a souvenir) without you ever touching it.

3.Spectator closes her eyes and focuses on the card, which is then turned face up in full view of the audience.



The problem is that, between steps 2 and 3, a few things happen. If you both try to make the effect less complicated, it nearly turns the effect into a basic effect that a lot of us already know... I'm sorry but it's true.

I'm sorry again, but I'm not concerned about difficulty or peforming complicated magic. Again, when I read the ad, I thought: "cool, I won't have that much to carry around with me!". If you perform magic in restaurants like I quite often do, you know that it's a pain to have to carry a lot of stuff. I just don't want to carry all that with me since I do not use what is required for the effect normally, and, again, I already have a similar effect which is less complicated. I thought I might perform Freak instead of my usual one, but it tuns out that Freak is less practical. But if you guys normally carry around the stuff required fro Freak (and really there's no sarcasm here, it's quite possible that some of you do), then yes, you might give it a try and it will most certainly give great reactions, there's no doubt (I still have a problem with the revelation, but people most certainly won't).

I thought I was buying a new method (no, I'm not saying that the ad was stating this, so it's my mistake if I had this feeling, but apparently I was not the only one), and people tell me that it's all about letting the tension grow and building an atmosphere. Well, I'm sorry, but I already now how to do this. But again, my mistake (although it was not stated in the ad that it was all about building tension... but anyway).
Ben
goldeneye007
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After discussing with a few members through PMs, I simply wanted to specify one point about my disappointment which perhaps was not totally clear in my posts, maybe even not for me:

First, Freak does what it says, only there are a few other things at play (that's the secret part), like every other routines on the market quite obviously.

I already perform a routine which is nearly exactly the same effect as Freak. The methodology is COMPLETELY different, but the overall effect is in fact quite the same (prediction of a card, completely free choice and boom you predicted the right one, to simplify a little). This effect already needs quite a few things, so I thought I might get Freak which seemed to be more practical.

In fact Freak and my other effect appear to be similar in difficulty/complexity; only, I'm quite familiar with my other one, so that's why I thought I might stick to the one I already know. Maybe I'll give Freak a try though, just to experience the reactions it gets.

In fact Freak is a clever idea, especially concerning the psychlogical aspect of it, that's what gives Freak its strength. And that's also where my misunderstanding laid, since my hopes were elsewhere.

Hope that's more clear now.
Ben
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