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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Mike Ammar's DL. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Pianoman
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Hi all, does anyone know if this is covered in detail in his ETMCM series? If so, which volume is it in, please?

Regards, Alan

PS: I am aware it's a Dai Vernon lift (I think.)
petersd
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Volume 1, and it is the Dai Vernon DL. It is about a 30 second explanation, which is pretty good.

Another good description is in the "Stars of Magic", or Ron Bauer's "Private Studies #11 Mechanical Deck".

Hope this helps.
Dave
Alan Wheeler
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I'm not sure you will want to buy the Ammar video for his description of Dai Vernon's DL.
As Dave says, it only lasts about 30 seconds. Ammar almost seems to mention it in passing, describing the DL once in a fairly general way. It is not "covered in detail," as you asked in your post.

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marko
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Yes, Ammar gives an very poor explanation of it from what I remember.
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truthteller
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Let's use the phrase cursory, as opposed to poor. The purpose of the ETM series was to teach routines, not technique.

But, one does need a good source to learn it, don't we? So, may I recommend Carney's Book of Secrets. The move is found in there, well taught and illustrated, PLUS the other material is STUNNING.
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Fine, cursory. Either way, I agree that the series was made to teach some great effects, not techniques, and it does succeed there.
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Jgriff
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If I'm not mistaken, isn't Dai Vernon's double lift covered in pretty good detail in Gregory Wilson's Double Take?
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cheeto4567
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Yes, the Vernon Lift is covered in Double Take. Greg also covers much better dl's as well (in my opinion)
petersd
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Ahhh, Double Take!!! Can't go wrong with that. Comprehensive and some good card magic to boot!!!


Dave
The Pianoman
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Thanks, everyone... most helpful indeed.

Regards, alan
Jonatan B
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In ETMCM, the double lift is taught in vol 2, in vol 1, it's only a brief explanation. (Even if it's almost that in vol 2)
Jonatan Bank
The Pianoman
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Lastly, roughly where are the explainations on 1 & 2.

IE.. what effects are they on.

Regards Alan

PS.. My free time is just very, very tight sometimes.
Sean
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No double lift explanation in Vol. 2. I considered buying Vol 1 for the explanation but all you nice Café members just saved me $35. (Thanks!)
Tom Gaddis
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Truthteller,

Carney isn't explaining Vernon's DL in "The Book of Secrets." The double from that book is often mistakenly attributed to Vernon, but it's Marlo's (see "Marlo in Spades" pg 5 the two card throw).

Tom
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petersd
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Pianoman,

I reviewed the Vernon DL on ETMCM and on Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights and neither one gives a description in which you would like.

By far the best write-up is in Ron Bauer's Mechanical Deck (12 pages) and you can see in action on his website http://www.thinklikeaconjurer.com/indexa.htm

It is my understanding that Ron played a pivotal role in developing this DL. There is another post abut DL's a few days ago which goes over.

Dave
Jonatan B
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There is explanation about the push-over with two cards in volume 2, where he explains "Ambitious Card" routine.
Jonatan Bank
Tom Gaddis
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Petersd,

RB didn't have anything to do with the double from "The Mechanical Deck." That's all Finley and Vernon and get ready is from ECT.

RB made a study of the technique and why the illusion was so good. Then wrote it up with all the details (something that's missing from the "Stars of Magic" description).

The DL that RB deserves credit for is the one he published in "Magiciana" in the eighties. This is the one that the Nash and Dingle techniques are based on. Harry Riser also does something based on the Bauer technique.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

Tom
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Sean
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Quote:
On 2003-05-05 15:47, Jonatan B wrote:
There is explanation about the push-over with two cards in volume 2, where he explains "Ambitious Card" routine.


True, but if you blink, you'll miss it. I don't really consider that a good learning aid.
truthteller
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Tom,

Just checked the Marlo source. The pushoff actions are the same.

However, this is the action that is referred to as the Dai Vernon double, (in Carney specifically and in other sources as well) but your post implies that his (Vernon's) was something different. If so, what?

Or, are you claiming that which is credited to Vernon as the double should be rightfully credited elsewhere?

Thanks for your posts, I look forward to getting to the root of this.
Tom Gaddis
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Truthteller,

There are two sources for the Vernon/Finley DL. "The Stars of Magic" and #11 "The Mechanical Deck" in the Ron Bauer Private Studies Series.

The difference is that Vernon moves the double over with the RIGHT hand. The illusion is so good people think he's pushing the cards over with the left thumb. Even when you know the method it's hard not to be fooled.

Vernon shouldn't get all the credit though. In the Vernon book of magic, Vernon says that Arthur Finaly was the first to let the double fall square onto the deck. This is what gives the light touch appearance. I don't think anyone knows exactly how much of the DL is Vernon and how much is Finaly's; However, Vernon did the DL so smooth it took in almost everyone. Especially Houdini!

Vernon/Finley should get credit for what's in "Stars of Magic" and "The Mechanical Deck", but Marlo should get credit for the push-off action in the Carney book.

Tom

P.S. Go to http://www.thinklikeaconjurer.com
and click on the "Mechanical Deck." Then, find the pages that show the DL and click on the drawings. Finally, download the clip. That's a performers view of RB showing the Vernon/Finley DL.
"The dumber people think you are. The more surprised they'll be when you kill them."
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