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organicmagician Veteran user USA 345 Posts |
I'm extremely interested in what other people here feel about stage magic. I posted this in my favorite close-up forum because I am curious what close up workers and card magicians feel, specifically.
I know a number of stage magicians and appreciate that is how they make their living - it's a hard thing to do in magic. I also appreciate the attention it draws to magical performance. But, generally speaking, I can't stand it. David Copperfield is great and there are certainly a few illusions by magicians like Kevin James that really sparked my imagination when I first saw them. But, by and large, I find stage illusions so boring I don't want to watch. As a lover of close-up magic (and close-up illusions in a parlour setting), I see close-up as a truly mystifying and unique art form. Stage magic to me is closer to dance or theatre. The tricks, which often involve strange, complex-looking boxes, seem closer to special effects than magic to me. Is this a widely shared opinion or am I in the soon-to-be-pummeled minority here? I could go the rest of my life in perfect satisfaction without seeing another trained tiger, giant puff of smoke, person traveling through a body, fan blade or aircraft engine or Hans Klok. The Pendragons' sub trunk, that great quick change routine by David & Dania and a few other isolated tricks will always make me smile. But the rest of it - blah. I guess considering the balance between close-up and stage on TV shows America disagrees with me... |
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john scot Special user brighton, uk 585 Posts |
Some people feel that way about card tricks!
Any kind of magic or performance art done well is a joy to behold (big illusions fool me more often that close-up and I appreciate that). Jamy Ian Swiss says you can even learn something by watching a bad performance. I don't really see your point (except that you don't like it). You’re comparing apples to oranges. Different horses for courses. If you don't like it then don't give it your attention..! John |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Here are a few thoughts that come to mind. Stage magic and close up magic are two different things and being able to perform one well - does not guarantee success at performing both.
However there have been stage illusion performers that did very well doing close up and some with cards. The first one that comes to mind is Blackstone Sr. My dad saw him perform many times and knew him. He was great with a deck of cards - could second deal and do the top change, the pass and did quite a lot of card tricks. The second magician that comes to mind is John Calvert. He is great with coins and does a fantastic watch steal. The third magician that comes to mind is Marshall Brodien. Before he was known for the TV magic cards and sets - Marshall Brodien was a close up magician who was good with cards. He performed in several Chicago bars - one of the bars he owned but he also performed in the lounge that was owned by Johnny Paul for a while. Besides being great with cards and close up he was also a successful stage illusionist. He did a blade box at the Riverview amusement park side show that as the story goes even fooled Okito. Later he built one for Jack Gwynne. And he was also a successful stage hypnotist. Another stage magician that was great with a deck of cards was Jack Pyle. He did a successful stage show - and also was booked as a close up magician later in life. However Jack Pyle used to use close up magic (card magic) to smooze the audience after the show and that would lead to more bookings. As I am sure the others above - used close up and card magic to smooze the press and other important contacts and members of their audience. I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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ladirector Regular user 128 Posts |
I think it is easier to become a great close-up entertainer than it is a great stage performer. Bish you mentioned some of the greats from the past. Who can you name who is a master entertainer both on stage and close-up in today's world?
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts |
If you're really a director, then I can see why you would believe this. The fact is, though, they're significantly different and both can be incredibly difficult to master.
What we can say is that it's easier for a stage magician to translate to and perform in the close-up environment than it is for a close-up magician to adapt his mastery to the stage. That's definitely not the same as what you're saying, though. |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-21 17:52, ladirector wrote: I read this and thought it sounded like saying "it's easier to be a great actor than a movie star." Maybe that's an unfair interpretation. Any given person is more likely to become a great actor than a movie star, and not because movie stars are great actors (see: Harrison Ford, Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Will Smith). Whether we like it or not, stage magic is and has been the public face of magic. David Blaine is an the exception, but even he almost invariably sells his specials with some grand, endurance stunt in a very public setting. I agree with the original poster that most stage magic is boring.* People are generally more willing to pay money to see those big, expensive contraptions. Hancock, or at least the unrated DVD, was a decent enough movie half-way through, but we know the producers said, "Hey, there has to be an elaborate super-hero fight sequence with tornadoes n' **** for people to think they've gotten their money's worth." I believe Paul Cummins performed stage magic for many years before making the transition to full-time close-up guy. *Derren Brown has arguably succeeded in all of the above mediums, first as a close-up, sleight-of-hand performer, then a television personality, and he's been doing stage show that I hear is superb. Then again, he's not selling himself as a magician.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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PaulGreen Inner circle 1133 Posts |
Just to start the ball rolling on current performers:
Johnny Thompson John Shyrock Jeff McBride Torkova Enjoy the search. Regards, Paul Green |
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ladirector Regular user 128 Posts |
Maybe there are more great close-up guys than stage because there are more opportunities to perform close-up. Everyone knows the more shows you do the better chance you have of getting better.
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ambassador365 Loyal user 201 Posts |
I was trying to get through the "Masters of Illusion" the other night and almost changed it.
So much of it just came off as lame and hard to watch... Jazz hands and really awkard/dorky looking dance moves, obnoxious and exagerated facial expressions, mullets and sequins. I felt embarrased watching some of it. I'm sure that some people may find that kind of thing as entertaining. Different strokes, I guess. Of course, I know that all stage magicians aren't like that. Stage performances from David Williamson and Michael Finney come to mind. Rudy |
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ladirector Regular user 128 Posts |
I also find Masters mostly lame and unwatchable. You mentioned Williamson, I think he belongs on Green's list, as does Kozak, John Carney, Steve Spill, Kevin James, Derek Hughes.
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ambassador365 Loyal user 201 Posts |
Wow! Thanks for introducing me to Derek Hughes... I've never seen him before.
I'm watching a few a his performances on YouTube. Very funny guy and some great magic! Rudy |
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Bonz Regular user Twickenham, London, UK 168 Posts |
I think stage is very much a one way experience, where as close up is far more interactive.
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organicmagician Veteran user USA 345 Posts |
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On 2009-01-21 19:39, PaulGreen wrote: I love J.T. Who doesn't?! Does he do stage magic? I guess I sort of rope off sleight-off-hand stage stuff like the linking rings, balls in the net, etc., which seems more like parlour or close-up magic on stage. I'm sure he's got some stage routines and he is very funny. Same thing with Hobson. But, to continue to define the discussion, I don't think comedy/parlour magic is what I'm referring to. When I think of most stage magic, I think of the stuff largely set to music. Are people really still stoked by watching a tiny woman climb into an enormous box and then see some poor tiger appear after spinning the thing around three times? As to Jeff McBride, I won't expound at length. First, because he is widely beloved and second, because EVERYONE seems to know him somehow or other. Jeff is obviously one of the most talented sleight of hand guys there is and his card production and throwing displays still blow me away. But, what about the masks? Maybe its because he is not quite as fast as he used to be. Perhaps, its because I've just seen it on too many TV specials. But, when I saw Jeff perform the mask routine on Masters of Illusion a few weeks back, slowly/obviously dropping masks into a hat, I just thought: lame. I thought that this is why people mock magicians. I could see Gob Bluth performing that same routine on Arrested Development and it would come across as a piece of devastating satire. It's so terribly self-indulgent. When I first bought Paul Green's DVD, one of my first magic purchases, I fell in love with Here, There and Chicago, Too. I remember watching in awe as one impossible thing happened after another. The presentation was fun, but classy. Not goofy or demeaning. The mysteries were real because they were happening right there in front of people and they were participating as they chose cards and turned them over. It is that experience that drew me to magic. When you watch (even the more athletic performances) stage magic illusions, you often think: jeez, "I could do that if I had that box and an assistant." The magician doesn't even do anything but dance around in a number of tricks. When I perform Here, There and Chicago, Too, spectators are truly baffled, even shaken. They think: "I could NEVER do that!!" I wish Masters of Illusion had Johnny Thompson, Jeff Hobson and Dave Williamson on twice for each grand illusionist. They haven't yet had ONE linking rings or Zombie, which are so much fun to watch. But they've had something like three or four snowstorms, all performed in almost exactly the same sequence. Can't subsequent acts at least change the plot a little from soaking the paper before making a clumsy switch? |
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Pruitt New user 12 Posts |
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On 2009-01-21 20:07, ambassador365 wrote: It really was pretty awful - at least the portion I saw. |
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professorwhut Inner circle Posts R US sold me 1353 Posts |
I never watch Illusion type mage on TV and have no desire to see it in person.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.
TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut] |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
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On 2009-01-23 22:38, organicmagician wrote: "The Great Tomsoni" does an incredible and very funny stage act, including maybe the best dove act around. He was one of Lane Burton'e teachers. Johnny does it all, and he does it all very well. IMO, he's the single best all-around (close-up, parlor, stage, manipulation) magician living, and in the running for all-time--I'd probably put Fred Kaps ahead of him, but he's definitely on the short list in my book!
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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organicmagician Veteran user USA 345 Posts |
Definitely - I think great comedy magicians and those who do sleight of hand stage routines are great. I've only been lucky enough to see Johnny twice in person, at a performance and at a lecture. It was a real treat! That was a world away from Sigfried and Roy stuff. I couldn't imagine Johnny Thompson in a singlet, covered in rhinestones, descending from the ceiling in a whirl of smoke (unless it was satire) and launching himself wordlessly through his assistant's body.
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Logan Five Inner circle Northern California 1434 Posts |
For me, magic is more magical when done close-up. That's just my preference.
Self concept is destiny..
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ChicagoMike New user 34 Posts |
I agree with everyone on Masters of Illusion. Its a hard watch. Also, if I ever see another zig zag Im not sure what ill do..Too many box acts, too many shiny shirts, the art of stage magic needs a facelift.
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pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts |
There are few few illusion acts that get me really excited. I saw Lance Burton last year and even the parts I enjoyed best were not the big box illusions. His bird act and the French ball sequence were my favorites. Spectators often ask why I don't saw girls in half, or whatever and I tell them exactly what I've thought of most magic since I was 13. If you put a girl in a box, and then she disappears, don't you think the trick has something to do with the box? Now if you give me a coin from your pocket, it goes in my hand, and it vanishes 6 inches under your nose, which is more impressive? Of course, there are exceptions for stage magic. No one illicts an emotional response from his audience like David Copperfield. I really think that if he wanted to, this guy could bring tears to your eyes using a coloring book and a statosphere. No one tells a story like David. Penn and Teller are also great, but not so much for any big illusion they do, but for their unique presentation. I'll take a good version of Triumph and a manipulation routine over big boxes ANY day.
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