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prototype Veteran user Rick Holcombe 320 Posts |
Thank you very much Kainoa! I will not be cancelling my order, I was just losing hope, but you finally came through and even exceeded expectations. Thanks
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evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
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On 2009-02-16 23:08, Jonathan Townsend wrote: David Roth is offering personalized lessons? Wow that's pretty cool! Evikshin |
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Ethan Orr Regular user Minneapolis 163 Posts |
No see what he means is that if you actually owned a copy of "Bobo's" you couldn't possibly need any other piece of coin magic instruction. Because, as we all know, there hasn't been a single valuable development in coin magic since the publication of "Bobo's".
I'm assuming Mr. Townsend's magic library consists of Modern Coin Magic, all eight volumes of the Tarbell Course, and the De viribus quantitatis. Because really that's all you need. If you own a DVD, you are either the most wet behind the ears newbie, or an idiot. |
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evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
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On 2009-02-17 02:57, Ethan Orr wrote: LOL! Too funny...I must be an idiot, with very wet ears =) |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
It helps to be prepared with some basic knowledge (at least try the stuff in Bobo's) and get some help with the basics from a master before going off into advanced work like Kainoa's.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Ethan Orr Regular user Minneapolis 163 Posts |
But what makes you think MarkTirone doesn't already have that knowledge? I happen to know Mark is a pretty good coin magician, definitely not some novice. I really don't see what about his post led you to believe he has no basic knowledge. Most new magicians probably don't even know who Kainoa Harbottle is.
Also, even if he weren't at the level of Kainoa's work, what's wrong with having some holiday money and spending it on magic you maybe won't be able to afford otherwise? Many of us don't have disposable income. I can completely relate to coming into extra money and buying magic for the future, that you know you won't be able to pay for down the line. There's nothing wrong with this; in fact, it helps our economy and, in this case, helps someone (Kainoa) make a living. I really think the "newbie" advice needs to be saved for those who ask for it, or who obviously need it. Otherwise it just sounds condescending. |
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MarkTirone Inner circle palming not 1 coin, but 1139 Posts |
I own both MCM's, the original (dover reprint lol) and the hardcover version of Bobo's. I know the material very well. I like to work on stuff sometimes though. I don't mind if my hands cramp up and I can't move them, I will take that risk to practice Kainoa's work, I jsut about mastered everything on Curtis Kam's Silverado and Cashablanca (other than sandwhich move-athon lol). Plus Kainoa is the only place I know of that you can buy all of his books, plus he has a great deal going for all of his books, PLUS, I can probably get them signed lol
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Ethan Orr Regular user Minneapolis 163 Posts |
Plus you might not be able to get them anywhere after the site closes down.
I've had a similar problem going; do I buy a chop cup from RNT2 now when I can afford it but know I won't be actually practicing a chop cup routine for a long time, or wait until I'm ready to start chopping and not be able to get a cup of such high quality for a good price (since they're closing)? Well, I bit the bullet and bought the cup and a set of balls, and they'll sit on my desk until I'm ready to tackle them. Get quality material while you can. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=3
been that busy? really? I still feel that getting some direct help from Roth and maybe attending the next coin symposium is a better use of funds than stocking up on new books which presume you already know the old stuff.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Ethan Orr Regular user Minneapolis 163 Posts |
In the first post of the very thread you linked to he states that he is reading Modern Coin Magic. How does telling him, two months later, to buy a copy of Bobo's, make sense or help in any way? Also, how does berating someone with "How about learning to read?" (this from one of your responses in the linked thread) help them? That response was totally unprovoked and wildly inappropriate.
You really need to figure out how to treat people with respect, and not like they're your idiot stepchild. It sounds to me like you care less about helping people and more about taking your anger out on them--basically, you sound like a bully. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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My point being I can't for the life of me find it in here The internet has a way of letting folks point back to where they may have overstepped themselves. BTW one earns the respect of others.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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prototype Veteran user Rick Holcombe 320 Posts |
I don't think you realize who you're talking to Ethan and Mark. Better to keep quiet and keep practicing, whatever level you "think" your at.
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cperkins Special user 700 Posts |
Ah, more importantly I am concerned that we might not be hearing as much from Mr. Harbottle in the near future. What's the skinny here? Hope things are okay with him....I hope he intends to stay connected though with coin magic - he is wonderfully gifted and has added so much to the body of knowledge for all of us- what a talented fellow!!! Where are you Kainoa?
I have struggled with coin magic for over 20 years - I sure could learn from a session or two with David Roth...are you kidding???? Great way to compliment all that reading and watching. Would also like to be in Vegas with all the heavies...but life is full of little disappointments... Mark, you know how you learn best...just do it all...read, watch and do.
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe) |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2009-02-17 19:23, prototype wrote: Hey it's cool - about all I ask of folks is that they treat the craft with respect. I helped Mark find EG in Bobo's and just don't want to see him stuck or frustrated by Kainoa's work. His books expect some experience with sleights in Buckley's book using Downs Palm and the ability to do sleights while hiding coins and not get all white-knuckled while doing them. The latter tends to take considerable practice.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Ethan Orr Regular user Minneapolis 163 Posts |
I don't care if you're Dai Vernon or the pope. You treat people decently unless they have done something to provoke otherwise. If not, I'm going to say something about it. And it has nothing with whatever level of magic skill I "think" I have.
I am an educated man and a teacher. I deal with people struggling to learn things constantly. In my professional career, I've encountered many people whose idea of help resembles the way Jonathan Townsend speaks to people. In my experience, this method does not inspire people to listen, nor does it earn that person's respect. In fact it provokes the opposite. My experience is that people learn best when dealt with respect, compassion, patience, and tolerance, like human beings. I agree in a sense that respect has to be earned, but that doesn't mean it's okay to be a jerk to someone until then. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2009-02-17 20:19, Ethan Orr wrote: Sadly, your posts may warrant some criticism here. You presume to know what someone else feels is sufficient cause to make a comment you feel is inappropriate and you go off in public based on that? Mindreading to start, then making adjudgments about what you found out via mindreading... and then you bring your pronouncements into a public forum. I hope you teach your students to behave better than that. Clearly you don't treat others as per your own stated rules for others to follow. How nice of you to have rules for others...did anyone ask you to set forth rules? IMHO it's easier to learn how to fool others after you slow down on fooling yourself a little. IMHO you can earn more respect around here keeping personal statements and distracting questions to private messages. So, got anything to say to a student of the craft who just learned what EG is two months ago and now wants to go after Kainoa's work? Or about spending money now vs holding on to it for later?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Ethan Orr Regular user Minneapolis 163 Posts |
I said "treating people decently unless they have done something to provoke otherwise." Not "treat people decently without exception". That's why I called your responses to Mark in this thread and the one you linked to inappropriate and unprovoked. You knew he had a copy of Bobo; you linked to a thread where he asked about content in the book two months ago. Why go out of your way to tell him to buy one? And there was nothing in the previous thread that he said to provoke a response of "WTF? How about learning to read?"
As far as anything to say on the original topic, read my previous posts. You're the one who skewed things off-topic by telling him to buy a copy of Bobo's when all he did was ask Kainoa Harbottle a question about ordering DVDs. But I'm respectfully stepping out of this exchange. We obviously don't see eye to eye, and this thread is starting to sound like dogs barking in an alley. My apologies for my role in continuing the silliness. |
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MarkTirone Inner circle palming not 1 coin, but 1139 Posts |
Hey guys, It's fine. I am not here to change Jonathan's, or anybody elses opinions on magic and how it should be learned. I now understand that the post I made to Jonathan in the linked thread sounded disrespectful and I am sorry, I don't want to be the cause of fighting over anything here, after all, it is one of the reasons I came to the magic Café (not the only reason though )
As for me learning Kainoa's material, I heard that it is top notch and I realize that even after learning edge grip some 2 months ago, I can execute the sleight in just seconds and from many different positions. I have studied the posts made by Kainoa and his followers and realize that it is very difficult material to appropriately acquire. However, I am willing, like I said above, to push myself to extreme limits and really practice this material. Plus, I'm not a full time professional making all my money off of doing magic and surviving off of it, I have lots of practice time late at night to work on some stuff. I have learned through experience that Jonathan is a highly respected practicioner and professional of the craft and I do not intend to go against him. he has a very valid reason to be upset at me for saying that I feel up to the challenge of keeping up to speed with Kainoa's work. But I think Jonathan, whether you already (and I presume you do) understand that anything and everything will be said on the internet. It is up to you to decide if it is true facts or not, and sometimes it is very difficult to differentiate between the two, but in my case I really need you to trust me when I say that I am up to the challenge with everything in me, and I WILL grasp the techniques in time, even if it takes me 10 years. Sorry if I let anybody down or came off as the kind of person who likes to argue or cannot fend for himself when in an argument. I try my best to not speak in this manner to anybody, especialy my role models, such as Jonathan. |
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Cpontz Special user Daupin PA 553 Posts |
I agree that it is more important that we won't be hearing from Mr. Harbottle. I met him at a New York coin seminar and greatly appreciated his work. It's a loss when someone of this caliber decides not to post anymore.
Craig |
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MarkTirone Inner circle palming not 1 coin, but 1139 Posts |
Well, he's stll active on Facebook Hope he doesen't stop emailing.
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