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Keith Mitchell
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I remember seeing Gazzo with large loads in his cups then ends up with a Mellon from his Hat, therefore large loads does seem to work for his street routine.
TheAmbitiousCard
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I agree with Pete. I'm recently downsized my cups from Animal (baseball) cups to Sherwood (tennisball) cups even for my outdoor shows or large shows. Tennis ball size loads are big enough, easier to carry, etc.

I still love the Animal cups and may keep one set just in case I change my mind for certain shows but I'm Sher that the Sherwoods are here to stay.
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Levity
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Quote:
On 2009-01-29 16:39, Pete Biro wrote:
Look, here's another thing to consider regarding tennis balls, baseballs, etc.

How to you load and palm them? If you use a pouch, maybe OK if you can misdirect well. Most guys I see can't.

And how much do you FUMBLE to get a big load out of your pocket?

I won't repeat it here, but Ken Brooke showed Ricky Jay and I how you can get an incredible reaction even with small lemons.

It's not the size, but the CHANGE he taught.


Amen, Mr. Biro.

Geoffrey
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Epiphany
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Dad had planned on a "slugger" cup line that took baseballs. But he kept saying he couldn't justify a cup that size for closeup, only street or large venues.

I think the "Tennis" ball ratio is a fair medium to compare to as it leaves a variety of sizes allowed based on performer. The "Saddle" of the cup in conjunction with the flow of the cups wall is what makes the illusion of any size load look big.

But big isn't always the kicker as Mr. Biro said. Most are not expecting fruit, veggies, chicks, hampsters or even goats to pop out of cups as the end. Just kidding about the goats, unless of course you have those huge Auke cups or my fathers old stage set.

Epiphany
MickeyPainless
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Pip,

I wanna do pot belly pig loads!

BTW, I can't put those little jewels ya sent me down! I LOVE em girl, ya done muy bueno!

Mick
Epiphany
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Mick,
from what dad says, those Auke cups are huge and just might handle that load Smile

I'm glad you're pleased with the cups, but please put them down before trying to drive or working on horses Smile

Epiphany
Keith Mitchell
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Pete is right about fumbling to get a tennis ball out of a jacket pocket, and I am convinced to go with something smaller but surprisingly different from the working balls.

To Epiphany and others, I have never seen giant cups being used, so I can't imagine how it would be possible to pick up the cups with one hand or hide the loads. I have only been with C&Bs for about a year and therefore have never seen anyone use anything bigger than a regular size cup(s).
Epiphany
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Dad did human load in his stage size trash can cups. It was all done with blackart. As to Auke's cups, a forklift is needed from what dad has said about his giant stainless steel cups.

I usually use lemons or limes for final loads. Some times depending on the set I'm using I use foam stress toys.
Pete Biro
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Dean Dill has an Auke jumbo cup and I think I came close to a Hernia trying to pick one up.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
MickeyPainless
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***but please put them down before trying to drive or working on horses***

Ahhhhhhhh but with these bad mamajamas in the bag it's 21 oz. of stout copper and with one little *BONK* on Triggers noggin and I'll save a fortune on sedation!
ATTENTION all PETA types, I'm frikkin KIDDING!

As for driving.... I only do card sleights while driving! Smile

Mick
Bill Palmer
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Those Monster Cups that Auke makes are really neat to have, but a pain to perform with. I demonstrated them at a Texas Magic Collectors meeting in Fort Worth shortly after I got them.

I brought out the stack of three and placed them mouth upwards on the table. I demonstrated that the cups could be nested with a tennis ball between the cups.

Then I produced a final load -- a five inch tennis ball!

Just so nobody will go nuts figuring it out, look in the Alex Elmsley books. It's the same thing he does for the salt load.

I have to use both hands to lift a cup without dropping it. Auke can handle them like teacups.
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Keith Mitchell
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When are you guys going to put this stuff on YouTube? I wanna watch... Smile :0 Smile
Mr. Muggle
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Quote:
On 2009-01-29 16:02, Epiphany wrote:
It's not marketing drivel, it's engineering drivel and customer input on ball sizes and what they wanted to be able to use and do with the cups. If you were to follow Mr. Gunn's drivel everyone would still be using Paul Fox size cups today.


Last I recall, RNT2 has sold a vast number of Paul Fox cups Smile

It frankly doesn't matter who's drivel it is; whether its a magician who's proven to use his props and publish a grand routine, a company's marketing technique, or an engineers justification for one unknown reason or another; Kent's right - most magicians aren't looking for a true tennis ball size load. Why? The load is to large for most magicians hands. In over twenty years of magic I've found that most magicians who perform the cups don't handle one and one-eighth inch balls anyway; the long time standard has historically been three quarter to one inch balls. Sure times and cups have changed but it will take more than a few years to force evolution of the human hand - even for magicians!

Like others before me, I agree with Pete as he is wise. Personally, I've always tried to use the largest cup I could handle without incident regardless of the size of my final load I planned to use. To do otherwise is putting the cart before the horse. In my opinion, large hands that use small cups and/or small hands that use oversize cups detract from the performance setting and takes away from the magic. In addition, for some magicians, improper cup size also limits and/or prevents the magician from performing a number of moves and sleights. The best bet is to experiment and find what cup fits you best and then use it without focusing on final load size; but I digress.

Back to spatlind's original question at hand. If you have the desire to use one and one eight inch balls your limited to the less tapered and irregular shaped Phoenix II Cups. If your going to use one inch or less balls, the Foxy 2.5's have a slightly wider diameter and taller saddle compared to the Sisti cups but hold a smaller final load. For myself, the Sisti cups have the most appealing look to them of the three and fit my hands well, as such, they would be my recommendation.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
the Foxy 2.5's have a slightly wider diameter and taller saddle compared to the Sisti cups but hold a smaller final load.

Wrong!!!

The Foxy 2.5's will hold a tennis ball. The Sisti cups will not. They will hold a lacrosse ball, which is smaller.
"The Swatter"

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Mr. Muggle
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I stand corrected on the ball size; thanks Bill.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
Philp
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If a tennis ball is really needed for the routine do not dismiss the Sisti Cups.

Let me explain: I recently purchased a bag of 20 'value' tennis balls from a major toy store. In my opinion the balls would be of limited use for tennis but it is possible to find 3-4 balls out of the bag that do fit my RNT2 Sisti Cups as final loads - just. The balls look exactly like a tennis ball with the now common bright yellow finish. I have measured the balls' diameters at 2 inches and 7 sixteenths.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Philip
bkp007
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For the longest time I had no interest in producing large loads, i.e. oranges or tennis balls. To me it was all about the look and feel of the cup.

So, I got a set a paul faux cups, that take a lacrosse ball. (If you are reading this with disappointment because I didn't get a "better" set of cups feel free to give me your nice expensive RNT cups). Right now, I just can't afford expensive cups. One day...

But after looking and looking for red lacrosse balls (that I didn't have to order over the internet and pay double price for shipping) I got very annoyed. Most stores don't carry lacrosse balls, much less red ones.

The problem, for me, at least, is availability. I want a set of Foxy 2.5's just so I can have a small looking cup that takes a load (tennis ball) that is easy to find. I do agree the foxy 2.5s look deceptive, but then again, how important is the deception there?

I mean, obviously the ball can fit in the cup, and the spectator knows it, because they saw it come out from the cup. While it is impressive that a large load could "appear" under the cup, in the end I think the spectator is more impressed with the fact that the large balls appeared, not so much that they can't fit back under the cups. Whether the load fills the cup completely or not, the important part is the surprise of the final load. Granted, a grape as a final load won't be good, but to me, and apparently pete biro, ricky jay and other great magicians, the final loads don't have to always be huge.

I think the aluminum foxy 2.5's with small tennis balls, and regular tennis balls as final loads would make a great looking routine.
Bill Palmer
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To find a set of red lacrosse balls that will actually fit your cups may be problematic. There is enough variation in those cups and in lacrosse balls that there is a chance that you won't be able to get all three of them to take a lacrosse ball of any color.

If you want to use lacrosse balls (and there really is no reason to be fixated on lacrosse balls), get a set of Monti cups.

Check this thread http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=115

This post http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5966044

And this post http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5965435

My suggestion would be three fold
1) Take your cups to the nearest sporting goods store that carries lacrosse balls -- probably one in either Texarkana or Dallas -- and see what they have that fits.

2) Take your cups to a toy store and see what they have that fits.

3) Come to the TAOM convention in Houston Sept 4 - 7, bring your cups, and I will have a whole bunch of lacrosse balls you can try out.

Normally, to purchase three red lacrosse balls you would have to buy three packages of colored lacrosse balls, and they might not fit. Red is not one of the normal colors. They exist, but the ones that are legal for play are white, yellow. lime green or orange.

The rules of lacrosse state the following:

SECTION 16. The ball shall be white, yellow, orange or lime green
smooth or slightly textured solid rubber — between 7-3/4 and 8 inches in
circumference*, between 5 and 5-1/4 ounces in weight and, when dropped
from a height of 72 inches upon a concrete floor, shall bounce 43 to 51
inches at a temperature of 65 degrees to 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

*These would be 2.47 inches and 2.54 inches in diameter, respectively.

I also have some in dark blue and other colors, but they are not easy to find at sporting goods stores.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
gaddy
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Quote:
On 2009-01-29 19:50, madkiki wrote:
I remember seeing Gazzo with large loads in his cups then ends up with a Mellon from his Hat, therefore large loads does seem to work for his street routine.


That's mostly because of the requirements of his performing environment. Your mileage may vary.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Bill Palmer
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There are a number of considerations when looking at "attic space."

One is the height of the space, that is, the difference between the top of one cup and the inside of the top of the one that is placed on top of it. This will tell you the maximum size of ball that can be used in performing with a particular cup -- assuming that you perform a routine that involves nesting the cups with a ball between them. The skirt length is a rough indicator of this. The Bazar di Magia cups will accept the largest ball between them.

A second is the size of the saddle. This determines the diameter of the ball that can be used in a three ball display on top of the cups. However, this must also take into account the shape of the cup. A rounded top cup will allow for a larger diameter ball to be used in a three ball display than a traditional straight-sided cup with the same saddle.

A third factor is the radius of the curvature of the rounded top cup. A cup with a greater radius of curvature will allow for a larger ball in a three ball display.

One other factor is the shape of the saddle. This doesn't determine so much the size of the ball that can be used in the routine, but the way the balls appear on top of the inverted cup. The least practical of these from an aesthetic point of view is the flat saddle. A rounded saddle automatically centers the ball. A flat saddle does not.

The saddle should not be so deep as to obscure the view of the ball, though. It needs to be deep enough to center the ball, but not much more than that. Compare a P&L cup to a Pete Biro Johnny Paul cup. In my opinion, the Pete Biro design is superior to the P&L design, because the saddle on the Pete Biro cup is shallower, and displays the single ball much more effectively. But it is not so shallow as to allow a ball to roll off it easily.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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