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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Riffle Culling Sources (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Hansen
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There's a book being written by an expert in this field. Be patient. I hear it will be with us in the next year or so. It will contain everything you need to know to completely master this technique.

In the meantime, try getting your hands on Andrew Wimhurst's "Down Under Deals" booklet, it will point you in the right direction.
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2009-01-31 01:31, Hansen wrote:
There's a book being written by an expert in this field. Be patient. I hear it will be with us in the next year or so. It will contain everything you need to know to completely master this technique.

?????
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Hansen
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Mr Ben.
bishthemagish
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How neat for you.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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splice
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How neat for all of us, and if you decide to ignore that material, it'll be your loss. Not that it will affect our behaviour regarding Mr. Ben's upcoming release, so feel free to dismiss it out of hand if you like.
Open Traveller
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Quote:
On 2009-01-30 19:43, MickeyPainless wrote:
OT,
Isn't it because of Vernon that the Steven's Cull even saw the light of day?


Yes, at least, the "light of day" amongst us magicians. The part I was reacting to was when skillzilla asked if Vernon was any good at the technique.
MickeyPainless
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Oh I caught that right away! Smile
My question was to verify what I thought I remembered reading somewhere!
Thanks!
Magicmaven
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Who is Ben?
MickeyPainless
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Ben was the rat in the Michael Jackson song. Ben was the bear in Gentle Ben. Then there was Ben There done that..........

I believe they're talking about David Ben but I'm often wrong!
bishthemagish
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Mr. Ben - the expert on culling with the riffle shuffle? What method of culling does Mr. Ben "the expert" use? The Stevens cull? Or a different slant on the Fulves material?

Or perhaps something new or different?

And what would make Mr. Ben an expert or perhaps "the" expert?
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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kentfgunn
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I am not knowledgeable enough to tell you about who is an expert at riffle stacking, Glenn. I am not a professional magician either. I have read your manuscripts you were kind enough to share. Thank you by the way! They provide quite a contrast to Mr. Ben's writings.

I do know that David Ben wrote the Zarrow book and that fantastic Vernon biography. He was a student of Ross Bertram. I believe he was the ONLY student of Mr. Bertram.

I've read the Vernon biography twice. I've worked through some of the shuffle work in the Zarrow book.

I believe you and Mr. Ben have little in common. He is obviously college educated. He writes in a fluid and dynamic style. He has an editor and uses him/her. Mr. Ben is obviously far more knowledgeable about magic history and has the deep respect of the entire magic community. At least the part of the magic community that is literate.

You make yourself look small and ill-informed when you post things like that. I, on the other hand, always come off mean-spirited and hateful when I post things like this.

Luckily, David Ben has neither of our bad habits.

Read a magic book once in a while, Glenn. Don't try to compete with people in the magic community who have garnered real accolades from their contemporaries and have client lists most magicians are too stupid to even realize exist.

David Ben does shows at the Smithsonian, he is REGULARLY on television. He is writing some of the greatest books in magic.

That's what makes him an expert magician. The fact that he wrote the Zarrow book and hung out with Ross freakin' Betram, makes me believe he'd embarrass the hell out you in any discussion.

I hope this answers your question! Smile
MickeyPainless
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Well as usual Mr Gunn has put into more eloquent words what I was only thinking! Although I try not to judge a book by it's cover, in this case the writings are quite clear!
splice
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David Ben has years of practice wit the Stevens Cull, has read private correspondence from Vernon discussing the move, and has read all of the traditional stuff out there on it (Marlo, Fulves, etc.).

You on the other hand were bragging about not reading the materials which are available to all. This may make your take on culling "unique"; not necessarily original but still developed by you. It does not make you any kind of expert however.

I am very much looking forward to Mr. Ben's book. If nothing else, it will certainly read much better than your own manuscript, and I can expect less (or none at all) of the lazy copy-pasting that I see in your work. Based on that I certainly will support Mr. Ben in his efforts. When you consider all he may know about the sleight, the decision of all culling lovers should be obvious, and I don't think anyone is taking a chance by buying the book.
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
I believe you and Mr. Ben have little in common. He is obviously college educated. He writes in a fluid and dynamic style. He has an editor and uses him/her. Mr. Ben is obviously far more knowledgeable about magic history and has the deep respect of the entire magic community. At least the part of the magic community that is literate.

Thank you very much for answering my question that it is David Ben that they were talking about.

But from my point of view I don't have very much in common with David Ben from what you wrote about above. I have no collage education - and I barley got through high school and also have dyslexia. And I can honestly say that if I had not gotten into magic - I may have never made it through high school. But perhaps more about that later.
Quote:
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
You make yourself look small and ill-informed when you post things like that. I, on the other hand, always come off mean-spirited and hateful when I post things like this.

I am very sorry that you feel that people that ask questions make them look small and ill-informed. My question was partly to find out why some magicians today are considered to be an expert.

In my day - and in my opinion what I thought was an "expert" magician was a magician like Jay Marshall - Don Alan and Jack Pyle my dad Billy Bishop (who was a heck of a great card man in his day) and many others that did magic but also made a living at it. I don't have to say that I grew up around these people and as I was growing up around these people and learned quite a lot from these people and more - I thought in my ill-informed way - that "they" were experts.

Thanks very much for correcting me and telling me how ill-informed I was.
Quote:
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
Read a magic book once in a while, Glenn.

Wow Kent you jumped from - me not knowing that they were talking about David Ben to read a magic book - assuming that I do not read magic books. Well it looks like it is story time. Back when I was working at the Marshall Brodien magic shop at Old Chicago I used to read quite a lot of magic books. This includes the time when the place became Bishop's magic shop and later had two locations.

However - if I may add it was "reading" magic books that helped me learn to read and give me the desire to read that helped me through high school - and gave me my what was called - ill-informed education.

I used to have quite a large magic library - however years of being on the road doing shows and having to move about twenty five times in my life - I have had to cut the library down and only have a select number of books - that I re-read. Because my goal in magic is not to have the "biggest" library but only books that serve my need - when looking for good performance material to use at shows.
Quote:
On 2009-02-01 23:47, kentfgunn wrote:
Don't try to compete with people in the magic community who have garnered real accolades from their contemporaries and have client lists most magicians are too stupid to even realize exist.

I am sorry - but I will continue to publish my routine ideas and my Dads routine ideas for as long as I feel that it is necessary. But if you do not think that my ideas are worth you time or money - except when they are free - well then just don't buy them - or even if they are free - don't go there.

As I said and have said many times I have no problem with magicians that don't like what I do. However - some may be interested because I do magic and have over 30 years of performing experience and this - plus including my Dads stuff.

And if you don't know to much about Billy Bishop perhaps you should read the book I wrote about him that was published by David Charvet. Some magicians found the book interesting - and his material useful - however it includes little card work.

Perhaps you don’t consider magicians like him and Jay Marshall experts!

The rest is not worth my time to respond to except to say thanks for answering my question in your Kent - smoking Gunn way (laughing).
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2009-02-02 08:04, splice wrote:
David Ben has years of practice wit the Stevens Cull, has read private correspondence from Vernon discussing the move, and has read all of the traditional stuff out there on it (Marlo, Fulves, etc.).

You on the other hand were bragging about not reading the materials which are available to all. This may make your take on culling "unique"; not necessarily original but still developed by you. It does not make you any kind of expert however.

I am very much looking forward to Mr. Ben's book. If nothing else, it will certainly read much better than your own manuscript, and I can expect less (or none at all) of the lazy copy-pasting that I see in your work. Based on that I certainly will support Mr. Ben in his efforts. When you consider all he may know about the sleight, the decision of all culling lovers should be obvious, and I don't think anyone is taking a chance by buying the book.


Wow all this because it wasn't said until now that it was David Ben that was they were talking about.

But if I may add - my stuff is "self published" and is in no way as slick as stuff that is professionally published and packaged. But I feel the content is more important than the box it comes in.

But I have to say I have an interesting in this and the Fulves material because I have been told that the Fulves material has a link to John Scarne. And I have a great interest in the work of John Scarne who I consider an expert - and it seems that he did not publish a lot of his work.

My interest in culling and stacking with culling is to use it and find ways to use it in my work. Over the years I have found that being able to cull when working on the fly as I have - it makes for "less" set up in advance when doing a magic act over and over again.

In other words it is nice to be able to cull needed cards while it looks like your shuffling a selected cards into the deck. So my interesting in culling is not just "how to cull" but how to use it in a performing situation to serve my performing needs.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2009-02-02 08:04, splice wrote:
You on the other hand were bragging about not reading the materials which are available to all. This may make your take on culling "unique"; not necessarily original but still developed by you. It does not make you any kind of expert however.

By the way I have never claimed to be an expert - however I will be glad to give you a full "refund" (plus postage) for the book (Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Shuffle Triumph's) and the DVD (Tested card Work For Card Shark Magicians DVD - 1). Since it seems you are not very happy with it - as I said in my PM to you splice.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
splice
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Thank you for the offer and much appreciated. However I have already read the book and don't believe it would be ethical to take advantage of a refund just because I don't happen to like its format or contents. I knew what I was getting into when I bought the book. I was interested in your techniques, and that's what I got. I don't believe the editing is up to par but that's not what I paid for (even if I would expect higher standards).
bishthemagish
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Sorry splice I don't agree - we can't have my ill-informed "self published" manuscript and DVD "dirtying" up your magic library. Please return the book and DVD for a full refund and then I can consider this problem closed.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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splice
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I have never had anyone try to force me to take a refund.

I have a right to be dissatisified with a product. I also have the right to keep that product if I so choose. Despite its flaws I may find something of value, it may be useful in the future, it may spur other ideas. I paid my money knowing what I probably would get, and that's that. You won't silence me or change my opinion by forcing me to take money or return the products I paid for.
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2009-02-02 12:48, splice wrote:
I have never had anyone try to force me to take a refund.

if I so choose. Despite its flaws I may find something of value, it may be useful in the future, it may spur other ideas. I paid my money knowing what I probably would get, and that's that. You won't silence me or change my opinion by forcing me to take money or return the products I paid for.

Thanks Splice I agree with part of this - I just PMed you and I now consider the matter closed.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
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