I was wondering how long it was going to take till the See Thru Guillotine was going to be ripped from Wellington Ent. This is a horrible rip in my opinion. The builder is also ripping the Modern Art pretty bad as well!

Anyone have info on this guy?

Robert

P.S. Here is the link from the magic auction
http://www.magicauction.com/Mag_auc/illusion.htm

HA! I noticed that, too. I was browsing there yesterday and saw it and thought, "What the...."

I will share some insight to both of these effects. The person posting these is a widow of a guy who passed away. I know for a fact she is not aware of the See Thru Guillotine Issue.. The Modern Art is not a knock off.. The builder purchased the book and re-did it to make it a one man effect and actually serveral years ago this was Adv. in Magic Magazine. My dear friend the late Rick McDonald help design this one man effect. ( The pain of his passing still hurts today)As far as the guillotine its not a person trying to market this product, its a one shot deal that a lady who has lost her husband is trying to move a bunch of his stuff out.Not saying the knock off is the right thing to do, but is widow is just trying to get by.. nothing more nothing less.
Don

Sure, there's that ... but, I thought the Magic Auction will not accept copies or knock-off illusions.

What's wrong with a garage sale to move some junk??

Steve

What's wrong with it is she'd never get rid of it in a garage sale. People are looking for nickel and dime garbage at those things. If she wants to get rid of it, she has to go where the people who buy such things are. She could, however, put an ad in the paper or ebay, or if she's the widow of a magician, I'm sure she's familiar with IBM rings and/or SAM Assemblies. Of course, not everyone has the money to drop on a whim on illusions. If she just wants to get rid of it, she could also lower the price and it'd be gone in a heartbeat, then it's out of her hair.

Of course she's not going to get anything for it at a garage sale .. it was a joke.

I was simply trying to point out that the Auction goes back and forth on it's own rules .. that's all.

Steve

Oh. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Oops.

I would agree with Steve. but its no fault to the lady.. she is in a bad spot needs the cash more so than cash she needs closier. The good thing about the Magic Auction Chris and Joe will make sure she gets her money once the items are sold. Steve you heading to Magi Fest next week?

I know the widow in question, and I know Larry paid over $4000.00 for it and it was only used once, I was there in New Orleans.

If someone publishes a book on illusions and a person builds one of them why would that be considered a rip-off?

I have to wonder just how original Wellington's See Through Chopper is. Not trying to stir the pot, but I know Osborne came out with a guillotine in the 80s. Fast Build Guillotine or something like that. The only difference in the two versions, is Wellington's is completely see through, whereas Osborne's was designed to be built out of wood, but with two huge windows on either side of the head hole -- making it essentially a see through chopper. The prop was very "open" and minimal. I don't think it would be a difficult task to build the Easy Build Chopper almost verbatim, but replacing the wood stocks with plexi. Everything, including method, appears to be spot on the same.

The Wellington version is a bit more complicated in it's workings. I believe it was based on Alan Wakeling's work. I've got the Wellington prop and I know it inside and out. I'll take a look at my old Osborne books and see what I can find out about his chopper.

I guess I'm a little confused with the whole situation anyway. I believe the builder Richard Rau passed away a few years back. Is it his wife selling the props or someone else??

Steve

P.S. Yes, I'm heading out to Magi-Fest next week .. I'm pretty easy to find, see ya there!

Oh .. and I almost forgot to welcome Senior Rai to the Café!

The Chopper I believe is in Haunted Illusions, originally published in Geni. It's a great little chopper -- I'm making one as we speak.

Here is Paul Osborne's drawing, linked from his website:

Steve.. yes this is Lori selling them someone may be helping her but this is Rich's props.. I visted with her this past spring, I knew Rich and met him a couple of times but was very good friends with Rick "Raven" McDonald" Rick worked closely with Rich on the Self Modern Art and was a great freind of mine... Sad how both of this great men passed so early in life..

Ok .. now it's making a little more sense. I met Rich after we performed in Peoria for the Mid Central Magic Get together .. or something like that. We had a late night dinner and talked shop.

I also knew Rick .. from way back in my NACA days. He died young .. very sad.

Steve

With regard to the See-Thru Guillotine -
The idea and the basic method for the See-Thru Guillotine was first devised by Alan Wakeling. Alan had the idea, but not the means by which it could be accomplished. I spent well over a year designing and experimenting to develop the mechanics to accomplish the illusion. Because of the large investment of time, I decided to patent the final product. When you file a patent, you must list prior art. In my application I did list a reference to the Lester Lake version and also the Abbott Chinese Chopper (also a Lester Lake invention). The Osborne chopper is the same method as the Chinese Chopper. If that was made with clear plastic stocks it would fool no one. The See-Thru Guillotine is unique in that it will cut vegetables above, to the side, and below the neck. The See-Thru Guillotine can also be done surrounded. The blade of the Chinese Chopper and the Osborne style cannot be seen from the rear as "U" shape will be seen. My patent application was made in February of 1995. The patent has 11 claims. The one on Magic Auction clearly violates my patent. I have emailed Magic Auction advising then that no one has been authorized by me to make the See-Thru Guillotine. I have emailed Magic Auction to advise them of this. I have not yet received a reply. I will certainly follow up. I certainly don't want to appear petty, but I spent a great deal of time, effort and money developing and patenting the See-Thru Guillotine and will do what I have to, to protect it and stop the theft of what is rightfully mine.
I hope you understand and can appreciate my position.
Bill Schmeelk - Wellington Enterprises

Having the Wellington Chopper I can attest to everything Bill just mentioned. This is a staple in my show and one of the finest examples of craftsmanship I have ever seen. Bill really does go the nth degree when designing his illusions. I know from first hand experience.

The one on magic auction is absolutely a knock off and a poorly made one at that. I can say without hesitation, stick with the original.

Max

Bill, I do understand and appreciate your postion and support it. I would just remind you that this is a widow who has no knowledge that she could or couldn't be doing something wrong. She was left with the passing of her husband a lot of magic that she needs to move out. She has no intent to cause you or anyone else harm in selling this equipment. I know you will procedd as you righfuly can.. I hope there is some consideration for her situation. Again this is a prop not being produced, there is no question that the Wellington prop is the only way to go.. So for the above post.. its not a matter of "sticking" with the Wellington..the prop on Magic Auction is a one shot deal.. its part of an estate not to be seen again.. Again not defending the knock off..just giving you the insight to a very diffuclt situation.

Don

LOL. I'd like to see the widow of a guy who did not pass away. That would be real magic! ;-)