So what is the variation on the gaff needed to perform Roger's routine? I have a video of him performing and teaching the routine and he never mentions anything special about the gaffus.

A "normal" sun/moon the EP she** is non-expanded - it's the insert that is shaved down. In the Klause routine, the EP she** needs to fit over a normal half dollar completely, so it needs to be expanded. The insert, therefore, is not shaved down and looks more like a normal sized c/s. That is the variation we are dancing around. It's basically the same gaffus, but the Klause version allows a cleaner show of only two coins because the EP she** is nested over the half dollar at one point.

I use a "normal" sun moon coin from Lassen and a Lassen shaved remilled silver coin in sted of a expanded sh**l and a normal silver coin. This give the same result.

-Morten-

I'm a fan of Milt Kort's "Protean Coin" but all this talk about Goshman's routine now I have to go find it and see for myself. I have goshmans close up book but it doesn't have his routine in it that you all are talking about.
Tim

SAMOYA by Rob Thompson is by far the best! He's selling it on DVD now.

I second this: Samoya is a very accomplished routine presented by Rob Thompson in a very slick performance.

Can Samoya be done with just one set of SunMoon coins? Shell/CS/Shaved Morgan

I just received the Dollar size Lassen set and it's just fantastic.

The copper coin, (shell) when mounted on the C/S can be flipped in the air due to the size of the coin, and the meticulous construction.
The thickness of the copper/silver in the dollar size has minimal size variation, so I always recommend getting the dollar size Sun Moon set if you can.

And the fact that you also receive a shaved down Morgan dollar with the set makes this one of the best values in Coin gaffs in my humble opinion.

I have the Penny looking half dollar size Todd Lassen Sun and Moon and it is also of very fine quality but I never tried tossing it up as it is not required by my Sun and Moon routine and I don't have a shaved silver half dollar to go with it.

Thanks for your report on the Dollar size set.

I just got Apocalypse Vol.6-10 and was wondering if their are any routines in there that require a sun and moon coin?

No there are not.
Plenty of Spellbound moves, plenty of coins across with or without [ , some smart ideas for the Hoo-coin, several routines using one or more C/S coins but no Sun and Moon coin.

This means that you could recheck these to see what you could do using your S&M coin and get creative. Your S&M coin can bring some of these Spellbound ideas way further.

Wait, hold on. I thought a C/S coin is a sun and moon coin?

No the S&M coin(s) is much more complex than a C/S. Don't feel bad however, very few people know about the gaff. The good point however is that a smaller number of routine has been developed and therefore it is easier to be creative on this less explored ground.

The routines which exist however clearly show the great potential of this gimmick.

Goshman, Albert. Modern Coin Magic by J. B. Bobo: The Sun And Moon.
Kaps, Fred (edited by Pete Biro): Fred Kaps Lecture Book 1972 Magic Inc. P 6 Sun and Moon in Spectator's Hand: half and penny exchange in specs hand (uses Half, C/S, English Penny Shell)

Klause, Roger. Richard’s Almanach. p. 150: Soleil et Lune. & COINvention Inaugural Collection DVD. A very clean fantastic routine with a perfect dramatic presentation by its author. The concept of the shell starting over the C/S which is then transferred over the copper coin supplying two C/S coins, and the way it is used, is brilliant and opens unexplored possibilities.

Latta, Geoff: NY coin DVD Copper Silver Vol 4. Sun and Moon. In the bonus section, Geoff presents some good variants around the concept of eclipse. His patter would profit from knowledge of the conundrum of the sphinx to Oedipus.

Neighbors, David: Coinjurer DVD Winged copper-silver and Triple Change Wild Coin & Japan notes p. 18:Triple change wild & Heavy work made easy notes p. 25 Still tap dancing & Here comes the sun …and the moon and Advanced Routines for the Ultimate Wild Coin Gimmick

Price, Barry: Escamotage 1 booklet: Sun, Moon & Beyond.

Thompson, Rob : Samoya DVD Apl 2009

Wild, Mike. Tavern Magic 2. 4 illusions with the Sun and Moon. Total Eclipse, Quantum Mechanics, Premonition V, Equinox.

Gentlemen,

Any links to Rob Thompson's SAMOYA DVD? Can't seem to hit it via a google search.

Thanks!

Gene

Here's a video of the effect:

http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-US&playlist......msnvideo

For more info send an email to Rob Thompson: magicguy@pcwildblue.com

Somoya is Soleil et Lune. It's a nice handling, very well performed, but that's exactly what it is. You'll need the modified sun/moon for the clean shows.

With the discussions above on "normal" sun and moon, I am asking if the Johnson hopping half set has a normal Sun/moon set? Also, is it the same s/m set as the separately sold Johnson s/m set?

No unfortunately the Johnson hopping half set doesn't include the elements of a Sun and Moon.
However thinking about how to use the Johnson hopping half set for another effect than just the basic effect getting to the pocket is interesting. Try looking at the new Shufton/Regal "Portal" and see what you can come up with.

Alternatively see if you could rework something with David Roth portable hole using your Johnson hopping half set.

Possibly also a purse can replace a pocket in an effect...

Keep thinking you are on the right track: this is more original than buying another gaff (even if S&M is really a nice gimmick as well)

Actually it does contain a sun/moon. Remember - a "basic" sun/moon is a c/s coin with an additional sh*ll placed over it. So, an English Penny sh*ll covers the half dollar side of a c/s coin. Held proper, it looks like an English Penny from both sides.

Okay, take out the c/s coin, you're left with an English Penny sh*ll. Try to place a half dollar in the sh*ll. Since the sh*ll is unexpanded, the half dollar won't fit (it's not necessary to expand it for the c/s insert). Now if that sh*ll is expanded to take the half dollar, you'll have to modify the c/s coin also so it won't rattle around in the sh*ll. A "modified" sun/moon takes all this into account - you can fit the c/s into the English Penny sh*ll and a normal half dollar.

This modification opens up some nice clean shows when you're about to do some transpositions between the copper and silver coins.

Rob Thompson's "SAMOYA" and Roger Klause's "Soleil et Lune" is a little different routines, but you can use the same gaff/coins.

Todd's TWIAD set is perfect for the "Soleil et Lune" routine, if I am correct.