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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The International Brotherhood of Magicians! » » Why an initatiation fee..?? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Borack
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I would have joined long ago but will not pay an initiation fee..Why charge it..?? Certainly not for the time it takes to place someones name into a database..Any thoughts..??
mrunge
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There's more to it than just putting someone into a database. Somehow, one has to PAY for the database, among other things, to start with in order to get a name into it.

Mark. Smile
Merlina
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Maria Ibanez
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Greetings, Mark, you are so correct. It is more than just entering a name in a database. Members receive their membership pin, certificate of membership and a packet which comes in the mail with all sorts of important information about the organization along with the membership card which must be printed for each individual member.

Keep a dream in the making for you create your tomorrows by what you dream today.

Maria Ibanez
Borack
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Quote:
On 2009-02-05 08:40, Merlina wrote:
Greetings, Mark, you are so correct. It is more than just entering a name in a database. Members receive their membership pin, certificate of membership and a packet which comes in the mail with all sorts of important information about the organization along with the membership card which must be printed for each individual member.

Keep a dream in the making for you create your tomorrows by what you dream today.

Maria Ibanez


isn't that the point of membership fee's..?? None of the other organizations in which I belong (NRA ect. ) charge an initiation fee..Thanks for the response(s)I think Ill wait it out...
mrunge
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The initiation fee is basically your annual membership fee with a couple of extra dollars for "start up" expenses as mentioned by Maria. Any organization has the right to charge, or not charge, whatever they want. Groups such as the NRA have WAY more members among the ranks than does a magic organization, such as the IBM, which is WAY much smaller. The IBM still has to have the support from a limited group in order to pay its expenses in order to operate. It's basic business.

You'll have to decide whether it is important enough to you to join and support a magic organization or anything else. If you feel you'll benefit from it, then join. If not, then don't. You're welcome to "wait it out," but the fact is, you'll either pay the "initiation fee" in order to join the IBM or you won't become a member. Either way, the choice is yours.

Mark.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2009-02-05 18:16, mrunge wrote:

Groups such as the NRA have WAY more members among the ranks than does a magic organization,



Plus the NRA has guns, and their membership isn't afraid to use them. Perhaps if the membership of the IBM was as well armed there wouldn't be an initiation fee either. Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Borack
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Quote:
On 2009-02-05 18:16, mrunge wrote:
The initiation fee is basically your annual membership fee with a couple of extra dollars for "start up" expenses as mentioned by Maria. Any organization has the right to charge, or not charge, whatever they want. Groups such as the NRA have WAY more members among the ranks than does a magic organization, such as the IBM, which is WAY much smaller. The IBM still has to have the support from a limited group in order to pay its expenses in order to operate. It's basic business.

You'll have to decide whether it is important enough to you to join and support a magic organization or anything else. If you feel you'll benefit from it, then join. If not, then don't. You're welcome to "wait it out," but the fact is, you'll either pay the "initiation fee" in order to join the IBM or you won't become a member. Either way, the choice is yours.

Mark.



Hi Mark, of course you are right and agree with you..I was just using the NRA as an example. Of course they also abide by the principle that less=more, that too is basic business principle to gain membership !! I would pay the initiation fee, if the I.B.M. card got me a discounted admittance to the next gun show tho !! Besides, we don't need no steekin badges !!
mrunge
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Yeah!!!

Mark. Smile
Father Photius
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The IBM card will get you into the Magic Castle without you're having to have a membership in the Academy of Magical Arts, which owns and operates the Castle.
IBM tries to keep its fees down as best it can, as such rather than charge a higher general membership, they charge an initiation fee to the new members to cover the costs of inital membership processing and pins, cards, etc. You don't get a new pin every year or a new certificate of membership every year, just a new card.
In order to keep general membership prices down they IBM chooses to pass on special costs to those to whom they are applied.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
Borack
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Thanks Father Photius....
MagiClyde
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Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see the additional $5 for the first year as a hardship. I think SAM also charges an initiation fee when you first join up.

Perhaps Borack would prefer to think of it as a processing fee, not an initiation fee. Don't forget that in addition to all the goodies that Merlina mentioned, there is also a postal fee charged to send that stuff to you and that must be covered as well.
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
Borack
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Quote:
On 2009-02-08 01:27, clynim wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see the additional $5 for the first year as a hardship. I think SAM also charges an initiation fee when you first join up.

Perhaps Borack would prefer to think of it as a processing fee, not an initiation fee. Don't forget that in addition to all the goodies that Merlina mentioned, there is also a postal fee charged to send that stuff to you and that must be covered as well.


Its 15.00 dollar additional..and no I don't see it as a hardship just another example of a way to squeeze every last throwaway dollar from you...As the throwaway income diminishes so will the price of admission..Then the point will be reached where they have to raise prices to make up for the loss of revenue because they already priced themselves out of the market..Economics 101 less = more (for disposable income that is !!)....How much has the price increased so far in the past 5 years..?? I don't really know, but I'm guessing not in proportion to your salaries..
JRob
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Actually the $15 initiation fee was in place in 1996 when I first joined and the annual dues were only $40 at the time. So I don't think the initiation fee staying stagnant while the annual dues going up only $10 is out of line. It has not raised dispropornatiatly to any other expense I have.

Your choice is this simple, it is either worth the expense to you to join or it is not. You can try waiting them out and see if the price falls if you wish. But why complain about something you are not even paying (or apparently have no intention of paying) in the first place?
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Borack
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Quote:
On 2009-02-08 08:01, JRob wrote:
Actually the $15 initiation fee was in place in 1996 when I first joined and the annual dues were only $40 at the time. So I don't think the initiation fee staying stagnant while the annual dues going up only $10 is out of line. It has not raised dispropornatiatly to any other expense I have.

Your choice is this simple, it is either worth the expense to you to join or it is not. You can try waiting them out and see if the price falls if you wish. But why complain about something you are not even paying (or apparently have no intention of paying) in the first place?


Your confusing expense to throw away income...It is not my intention to argue the merits of IBM as it IS a great organization..My initial post was regarding the implementation an initiation fee/users fee/membership card fee/magician tax/postal fee/ whatever you want to call it..No need to take make it personal or throw jabs as Im not sure if your asking a question or making statement..as IT WAS my intention to join..
Kent Wong
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In addition to setting you up on a database, your application is also reviewed and published in 3 issues of the Linking Ring before you are approved. This whole process takes time and money. Many worthwhile organizations have initiation or capital fees and the IBM is not unique.

I know none of what has already been said will change your mind since you seem set in your ways. That's o.k. I simply hope others may read this thread and be guided by the comments.

Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
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Borack
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Thanks for the response Kent...I understand the reasoning behind it, I get it..
The part about being published for three issues and it taking time and money, is why I would imagine it exists.. Is the I.B.M. a non profit..??
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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One of the reasons I have kept my IBM membership is the ease of changing pages on and "the perk" of the "free" website...

Note to the organizers of the web site... I wish it could have a shorter web name / link.....Does anyone know if it possible or thought of in the future to make shorter name/links available..now it is

http://magician.org/member/doctoroflaughology

I also keep my

http://www.nearlynormalmagic.com

website through some of our wonderful Café Tech folks

at

GMB (thanks Mary)

I still want to know

Why a Duck...or was it what a duck?

Nigel says: "Why a Duct tape"..


Harris
aka Doctor of Laughology
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
Bill Wells
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Everyone -

Let me see if I can clarify this a bit. I thought we had always called this the new member fee and as Merlina (Maria) indicated early, it has always been basically to cover the cost of one becoming a member of the I.B.M. These cost items are primarily the I.B.M. pin and membership certificate and postage and materials to mail them. I don't recall us ever discussing overhead costs or any costs that might be incurred from publishing the membership application in The Linking Ring with regard to incorporating them into the new member fee. While I don't have the individual item costs at hand, I can assure everyone that the Board of Tustees has never regarded the new member fee as a money maker and it certainly doesn't produce any net revenue. Our intent has always been to simply cover the one time cost of bringing a new member into the I.B.M.

Yes, the I.B.M. is a 501(3)(6) not for profit organization chartered in the
State of Ohio. I can assure everyone that after having sat through our recent Midyear Board meeting last month and our budget review and discussion which took most of the morning, that the I.B.M. is certainly not making any profit! Smile

I appeciate Boarck bringing this up. It is always healthy to talk about fees and such in a frateral organization and there should be no misunderstanding or mystery as to why they exist or what they cover. Thanks also to everyone who has contributed to the discussion. Please let us know if you have any other questions about anything of this sort.

Bill
Borack
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" Yes, the I.B.M. is a 501(3)(6) not for profit organization chartered in the
State of Ohio."

that's what I have been waiting for...Thank-You Mr. Wells....
munkywrench
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If it were free then anyone could become a member. You get discounts from most brick and mortar stores when you show your card. You get entree to a lot of conventions and lectures. The Linking Ring has been around for a while and every issue has something of interest in it so much so that I have collected many old ones. The IBM also has programs for youth and international magicians. Don't want to pay? Oh well your loss.
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