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hugmagic
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I decided to tape Master of Illusion last night to my DVD recorder hard drive and then edit it off to a dvd today. It would not let me copy it as it is copy protected.

I called Phillips (my brand) and they said that stations are putting a code in their broadcasts that will prevent more than one copy of being made. That means if you copy it to your hard drive you cannot copy to a dvd. He said hard drive dvd recorders are being phased out because of this.

I had no problem copy it to the hard drive in analog but with the upcoming total conversion to digital I think we are going to be left in the cold again. I guess the networks did not like guys burning several copies of a show and possibly selling them. Understandable. But the courts have said that this safeguard is wrong that it does not follow the fair use under copyright protection. Thus far, the fcc has chosen not to comply with court orders.

My question is does anyone know of a way to allow me to make a copy for my own use. You can email me direct if you do not wish to post it here.

BTW, as far as I am concerned they can keep their digital television broadcasts. It is just another way for the goverment to control free air waves and charge us for it.


Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
ClintonMagus
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Look at this thread, specially beginning around post #19:

http://tinyurl.com/aj4nmu

I do not own a DVR, so I can't address any of the possible solutions, but it sounds like the solution to your problem won't be an easy fix, at least initially.

I figure that what will happen is the same thing that has happened to all copy protection schemes through the years - the "protectors" will decide that the outcry from legitimate users greatly outweighs the value of using copy protection.
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
hugmagic
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Thanks for the input. I think we are all basically screwed. If you record it to your hard drive, hoping to edit it and burn a disc, you will not be able to do it.

If you record to a dvd directly, you cannot edit it. I may waste a dvd tonight and see if I can edit it and then make a copy off it.

I have no doubt that the normal consumer will be out of luck on this one. The network and studio will lobby long and hard to keep us from taping their shows and programs.

Just trying to make others aware of this before they sink a lot of money into a hard drive recorder.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
ClintonMagus
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My thoughts - if you can get it onto a hard drive, there is SOMEBODY out there who can get it OFF the hard drive!
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ClintonMagus
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This is a silly question, but does anyone know whether a video/audio signal from a set-top cable or satellite box can be recorded directly on a VCR or DVD recorder, bypassing the TIVO recorder? Even if the copy protection is still there, it seems like it will be on the DVD/tape, and it will at least be "portable".
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hugmagic
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I have since found out that I cannot record directly to a dvd. I am going to try with my VCR to record the program and then transfer it into the hard drive and onto a dvd. From what I have been reading part of the problem is the tuner in the recorder/hard drive, reads this encoding signal. If you you use an external tunner and then a recorder you can possibly by pass it. I will continue to experiment.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Mystical Matthew
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Yeah, that seriously sucks. Nobody seems to care enough about DRM (Digital Rights Management) to lobby for change.

I think it's because nobody understands the implications until they run into stuff like this. You can't make a copy of something you watched on TV, you can't play that song you bought from iTunes on your Zune, and if your kid steps on their Shrek DVD you have to buy a new one because backing the first one up was illegal.

This is only the beginning when it comes to the rights the media companies are tearing away from us.

With that said I have a couple suggestions.

1.) Expand the storage capacity of your DVR. I know Dish Network will let you plug in an external hard drive for a small fee. You can get a 1TB drive for right around $150 now. That would give you a lot of extra space to store stuff.

2.) Buy a video capture card for your computer (either composite or component). Plug your DVR into your computer. Hit PLAY on your DVR and RECORD on your computer. You should then get a file you can edit and burn to a DVD... You'll suffer some quality loss this way, but it should work.
hugmagic
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I have a cheaper method. I think I will try recording to video tape then dupe to the hard drive.

I cannot add external storage to my hard drive recorder. This is one time I wish hackers would get busy. All I want is to be able to save something on dvd to watch later.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Matthew W
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I have a DVD recorder, and it sucks. It takes forever to burn what I just watched, and I have to leave it on until it is done burning, so I can't watch anything else.

VHS!

If I am not mistaken, a dvr copies whatever info is sent to it, including copyright protection and vhs just does the audio and video.
-Matt
Mystical Matthew
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With VHS you're taking a SERIOUS quality hit though...

I agree with your sentiment about the hackers... Several years ago though (As in 2003-2004) a lot of "technically minded" people were yelling about this. Nobody listened. The ultimate solution isn't to break the copy protection, but to pressure media companies to not put it on in the first place.

DRM hurts everybody, most of all the consumers and the artists. The only people it helps are the media conglomerates who are desperately clinging to an outdated business model.
ClintonMagus
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Pardon my ignorance, but in my research I have discovered that many folks evidently have boards that allow them to use their PCs as DVRs, hooked directly to their televisions. Is that over-simplified (or even correct?)

If this is the arrangement, I can see the possibility of easily accomplishing what Matthew was addressing in his earlier post.

EDIT:

Look at this:

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
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Matthew W
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The quality doesn't really bother me. I still get to watch my favorite shows again and again, much easier than the dvd recorder lets me.
-Matt
ScottRSullivan
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Quote:
On 2009-02-18 08:55, Mystical Matthew wrote:
you can't play that song you bought from iTunes on your Zune, and if your kid steps on their Shrek DVD you have to buy a new one because backing the first one up was illegal.


Someone owns a Zune?


*grin*

On a more serious note, just as an FYI, all the music in iTunes is DRM free. Which means you CAN play it on your Zune.

That's what that little Plus sign means next to the song. It means $0.99 for 256kb bitrate and DRM free.

While I am on your side as far as most DRM issues go: its an unnecessary item. Those who want to break it, can. Those who are legit users are hurt.

That being said, I think if a kid steps on a DVD and breaks it, you should store your DVDs on a shelf instead.

Just like if I run over a Wii game, I've got to buy it again. As far as I know, you can't backup Wii games, Xbox games, or tons of other games.

In fact, the old Nintendo cartridges or Atari cartridges couldn't be backed up either. If you stepped on one of them, you had to buy a new one. That's just life.

Matthew, the reason your DVD burning takes so long is because it is "finalizing" the disc. You don't HAVE to take this step. You can watch things right away if you want.

It's only if you want to take the disc out, and watch it on another player or in your computer. This is when the DVD recorder must finalize the disc, making it compatible with the DVD specification.
Matthew W
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ITunes music has limits to how many times you can burn it. Unless they changed that.

Of course I would want to take the disc out and watch it again. That is why I prefer VHS.
-Matt
ScottRSullivan
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I'm not aware of any burn limits on the DRM free music (hence 'DRM-free'). That was an RIAA requirement that Apple was able to finally get rid of.


Regarding the DVD recorder, my point is that many people use it like a VCR. They record a show using a timer, then when they get back, they watch it.

Or some people might find that two shows are on at the same time. They record one while watching another. After the one show is over, they go back and watch the one that was being recorded.

All without taking the disc out of the recorder.

In fact, using this second method with a DVD-ROM disc, you can actually watch the program being recorded from the start WHILE it is still recording the end of the show.

Using it like this, you can watch it whenever, without the wait. Time shifted content is huge once you experience it!

It is only when you need to finalize the disc to watch the recorded content on another device that you'll have the wait. And this is UNIVERSAL. They ALL must do this to meet the DVD spec.

Even in my professional editing studio, when I use pro equipment to burn custom DVDs for clients, I must finalize a disc so that other players can recognize it.

But hey, don't let me stop you from using VHS. I know you said you don't mind the quality. So if you don't mind that the quality less than half of that of DVD and if you don't mind it wearing out after repeated plays (which is why it looks like snow after a few plays) then go for it!
Mystical Matthew
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Quote:
Someone owns a Zune?

*grin*


lol! I agree the Zune sucks... I do however wish that Apple had some decent competiton. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Apple (You'll pry my MacBook from my cold dead fingers). I just feel that some real competition would be good.

Quote:
On a more serious note, just as an FYI, all the music in iTunes is DRM free. Which means you CAN play it on your Zune.

That's what that little Plus sign means next to the song. It means $0.99 for 256kb bitrate and DRM free.


That's a pretty new development though (and actually not ALL of the music is DRM-Free. Some of it costs $1.28 to get a iTunes Plus track). The fact remains there's a lot of people with thousands of dollars wrapped up in DRM'd tracks. I was smart and cracked mine ages ago. I buy from Amazon's MP3 store now...

Quote:
While I am on your side as far as most DRM issues go: its an unnecessary item. Those who want to break it, can. Those who are legit users are hurt.


Unless you're the OP, who would happily like to break the DRM on his recorded TV show and can't without taking a quality hit. Also, to my knowledge Blu-Ray DRM hasn't been broken yet.

The fact is that thanks to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act cracking DRM is illegal. That means that the OP is a hardened criminal if he does manage to back up his TV show.

MOST DRM is crackable, I agree. It remains a huge inconvenience and a legal gray area.

Quote:
That being said, I think if a kid steps on a DVD and breaks it, you should store your DVDs on a shelf instead.


What are you buying when you buy that DVD? According to the movie company you're only buying the right to watch it in your living room. That's why it's illegal to take clips of it, mix it into your own video, and put it on YouTube. In other words, I can't do anything I want with the disc, only things that are in legally established parameters.

So if all I bought was the right to watch the movie then why should I have to buy another DVD if it breaks? I didn't actually buy a DVD. I bought viewing rights that happened to come with a DVD / Blu-Ray Disc / Whatever.

I agree it's stupid logic. It's not my logic, it's the media companies. Either I'm buying a disc with a movie on it, or I'm buying viewing rights. Pick one.

Logically it makes the most sense to sell viewing rights and make maitenance of the video data that was given to me my responsibility. If I want to make 1,000 copies of that disc I should be able to, so long as it's for my own personal home viewing and I'm not giving them out to friends.

I paid for the right to watch that movie. Whether I watch the video on the disc it came on is my busienss. (Furthermore I should also be able to copy it to my iPod and watch it at no extra cost. I still own those "viewing rights").

Quote:
Just like if I run over a Wii game, I've got to buy it again. As far as I know, you can't backup Wii games, Xbox games, or tons of other games.


BECAUSE OF DRM!!! This isn't because copying a game is a difficult process, it's because Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony wrap it in DRM. Same logic as the movies apply's.

Quote:
In fact, the old Nintendo cartridges or Atari cartridges couldn't be backed up either. If you stepped on one of them, you had to buy a new one. That's just life.


Technically they could and were. You had to be a nerd to do it but it was feasible. It begs the question... If I own a 2600 and a copy of ET, why is it illegal to play it on my PC using a ROM file and an emulator?
ScottRSullivan
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Which is why I'm very glad we have the EFF on our side!

But, yeah, we're stuck with the way things are right now.
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