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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Andrew Mayne's Solo- X (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

markis
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Has anyone actually built any of the illusions from the Solo-X book with any success? If so, what was the difficuly level, how did they turn out, etc.

Thanks!
fxmagik
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If you have never built an Illusion before you may have trouble. As with all Andrew Mayne books you don't get any actual measurements, so you need to have a basic idea of sizes etc. in your mind. Once you have this thought out, they are no more difficult to build than if you follow a plan. Most plans have to be sized to fit anyway.
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It ain't what you do! It's the Way that you do it!
illusionguy
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FXmagik has a good point. In my opinon Andrews' book seems to be ideas and by his own assertion, ideas that have never been built and performed by him. Part of the reason Illusions purchased from reputable Illusion builders cost as much as they do,is because there is a great deal of research and development involved with building the first prototype. This directly translates into $$$ in time and materials. With that in mind the first prototype will most likley cost you significantly more then you would spend buying a tried and tested prop from a builder who has done the R&D already and spreds that cost out over several units. In addition there are, again in my opinion, proprietary issues on a couple of the illsuions in his book that he may or may not have been aware of when he decided to market his ideas. One for example is the "walking through the fan" although it is a different method than several being performed already. The Basic idea however of merging Fan plus a penetration belongs to Andre' Kole. It is one thing to change the methedology to improve the visual impact.( that would be a judgement call for you to make), but when the effect attempts to duplicate anothers basic original concept without incorporating a unique original principle, I think some may feel there is an infringement of intellectual property. I just wonder if he approched Andre' with this before hand or not.
Jack Murray
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If the assertions of "Illusionguy" are correct about "intellectual property" then most ALL ideas in magic are by definition an infringement. Take "Modern Art" for example. It is very much like Harbins' Zig Zag, however the methodology is somewhat different. By this definition, every sawing, cutting, levitation, appearence, suspension, etc. can't be performed because someone somewhere "did it before".
I believe a new methodology, does NOT infring otherwise we are ALL guilty!!

Jack
Kendrix
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Jack: I agree 100%. I have found almost every one of the so called original illusions in old books i.e. Burling Hull's "Encyclopedia of Stage Illusions".
illusionguy
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There are basic effects or concepts that we all can agree are considered public domain. Jack you listed them quite well and you can include penetrations with that list. However, that would be a very simplistic way of categorizing all illusions. Once you have established the basic effect to be public domain. Then you have the design elements and implementation, perhaps by merging two elements that have never been presented in magic before. This is where proprietery rights are introduced.

Norn Nielsons' floating Violin for example. Yes, a floating effect is public Domain.. but no one today would entertain the thought of merging a Zombie and Violin or attempt to duplicate Norm's effect. Professionals respect his inovation. Are you suggesting that would be alright with you? Perhaps twenty years from now instead of Neal Foster's Zombies we will have Norm Floating Violins, done 20 times in magic competitions! But not now, as it's considered intellectual property.

Harbins' Zig Zag is a cutting in three effect. That illusion bares no resemblance to Stienmyers' Modern Art. That would be like saying Zig Zag, is like Chuck Jones' Mis-made or FHs' Janet Box or DS's Cutting Edge. Modern art is a cutting in half. The basic premise of a dimembering or dividng is public domain, but how it is implemented and the reason most people feel intellecual propriety rights apply to Jim is because the methodology and concealment IS unique to Modern Art and (THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART TO UNDERSTAND).. not borrowed from any other previous illusion in magic.

The only point I was making is that the merging of an electric fan and penetration to my knowlege is not considered public domain yet. Andre' Kole is still featuring this in his repertoire.

Hello Kendrix, Please enlighten all of us! What contemporay illusions have you seen in that book?

I'm looking for any of the following... The jet engine penetration, Interlude, Impailing, Janet Box.. Is Harbins' Zig Zag or Stienmyers' Modern Art in there? I can't find any of them... must have pages missing..
Jack Murray
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Well I have had this conversation with MANY magicians, and many others DO see the similarities of Zig Zag and Modern Art. I aready stated however, the methodology was different.
You state it's different because one divides into three, and the other only two. I agree this is different, so if Andre Koles' "Walking through a Fan" is his and his alone, why not create a similar effect where a person RUNS through a fan? My whole point was don't copy, but the rest of us can't do a "fan effect" if the method is different, untill it becomes "public dimain"? I guess we can agree to see this differently.

Jack
M@gic Man
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Hey
what is actually in the solo x book ?
i have heard it is great Smile
Does it include the walking through a fan? Smile

Any way i should be getting a copy of it soon, hope it is as good as they all say Smile
Its not what you do, but how you do it.
Alex Tan
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Chris Murphy of Oz Illusions built the Shrinkboy illusion from Solo X for me. It's a great illusion that I've been performing for close to 2 years.

As there are no actual measurements in the book, you would need to make cardboard mockups before building or get help from a professional illusion builder.
illusionguy
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As far as I know Alex Tan, Chris Murphy is not building that anymore because it came to his attention that the "Compressed illusion" had already been built and being performed proir to the publication of the book. There are performance rights issues involved with that Illusion.
Alex Tan
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I was concern when I saw the ad for Daniel Summer's Compressed. So what are my options now?
illusionguy
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Daniel Summers is the creator of the Compressed Illusion. I saw him perform it at the Magic Island in Houston, TX a good year before Andrews' book came out. It was an exclusive illusion with him and I know he did let a couple other magicians do it as well. He is a very nice guy..he built acouple and gave it to them as a present!

Some people were disapointed when the seed of his idea was published. I spoke with Mr. Summers at a convention in Las Vegas and he said he would never have put his illusion on the market if the book had not come out. He said he believed it was independent thought and doesn't think Andrew was aware of Compressed. He didn't feel threatened because the book does not include all the subtle nuances that really makes Compressed deceptive.

I have to agree, while I was in Vegas I saw a magician do it at the Venetian Hotel and it looked awsome! They did it on the apron and I was sitting 12 feet away and it looked impossible! There have been unreputable builders and sellers of magic that have made a feable attempt to copy Daniels' design and nuances and claimed they got it from the book but they don't come close and instead destroyed Daniels' masterpiece.

There were reputable builders like Chris that were not aware and have since stoped making them. Bill Smith in Vegas holds the exclusive licence at the moment as far as I know. I would suggest when you decide to sell it perhaps include a performance right for Mr. Summers in the price before it changes hands.

Or talk with Daniel...like I said he is a great guy and helps alot of magicians.
Alex Tan
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Thanks for the great advice. How do I contact Daniel? I would sincerely like to resolve the matter.

I did not notice the PM when I posted the previous message. Thanks for the help Illusionguy.
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