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John Kokot New user 96 Posts |
According to the 2007 United States Census, the 2007 median earnings for men who worked full time was $45,113.
Based on your best conjecture, what percentage of all Magic Café members earned at least this amount performing magic for lay audiences in 2007. Given the absence of reliable data, the goal of this question is not to assess the financial status of working magicians, but rather to measure the perception that the magic community has of magic as a career. Although not of interest here, it is acknowledged that many magicians earn money in magic-related activities (lectures, writing, convention appearances, and inventions) that do not involve lay people. |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Here in Canada, the last census done was in 2005 and the median annual income was just over $41 000.00.
Working as part-time pros we earn well in excess of these amounts (both American and Canadian medians) strictly from performing for lay people each year. I certainly expect that the full time pros' income would exceed these figures even more. |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
One afternoon, while donating some time refinishing panels in the Palace, at the Castle. Milt and I had a similar conversation. We figured that 3 to 400 people were make a living, full time, as performers.
The real question is, how many people have purchased a house with money generated in the magic business, and nothing else.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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MagicB1S Inner circle Knoxville Tenn. 1039 Posts |
John,
The Café has 38,732 members at the time of this post. My guess would be that Less then 100 of these people actualy make 45,000 a year JUST performing to Lay people. I have been a member here for several years and have read literaly thousands of posts ( I do more reading then I actualy do posting ) My guess would be that most people here on the Café are Part time Magicians, making a part time living.
"There are Tricks To All Trades.... My Trade is all Tricks"
"An amature practices until he gets it right. A Professional Practices until he can't get it wrong" www.Themagicchest.webs.com bobswislosky@yahoo.com |
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tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
The number of full time pros Jay gave, 3 - 400, is probably short. There are a lot of guys out here that no one hears about because they are working. No need to discuss incomes - because it really only matters to us, our families and the I.R.S.
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-20 20:51, tacrowl wrote: Agreed. I know people who make twice as much income as us but have way less net worth due to high debt. Wealth includes income, expenses, how we budget, and our lifestyle goals. Personally, I feel incredibly wealthy (meaning happy) that I can support my family with my magic and don't have to go to a "day job" - regardless of any luxuries in my life or lack there of. $45,000 to one person could support a very comfortable lifestyle on its own to support a large family BUT could mean poverty to others with large spending habbits and large debt obligations. Not to mention geographical differnces and cost of living differences. Point is...income does not equate to success - at least on its own. Each person will set their own lifestyle goals. |
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David Bilan Special user Clarksville, TN 714 Posts |
Quote:
According to the 2007 United States Census, the 2007 median earnings for men who worked full time was $45,113. The US Census takes place every ten years, the last census in was in 2000. Where did the Census bureau get their numbers for 2007?
Yes, I am a magician. No I did not make my hare (hair) disappear... it just took early retirement.
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Rodney Palmer Inner circle 1317 Posts |
I believe that the numbers are way off. If you are a decent performer and perform only Birthday Party's during the year you will make more than 45K add some other Functions in and BOR Sales and easily you can make $ 75k-100k per year. It is not hard to do if you put the time and energy into Magic as a Business and not a hobby.
Rod
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"
In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I think Jack Turk has a course titled, "How to Make $25,000 Doing Birthday Parties Part-Time." $25K gross is 125 birthday shows per year at $200 each. 2.5 birthday shows per weekend average.
Part of the debate as to how many do this, comes from whether most birthday entertainers charge at least $200 for their show. From reading some of the threads (when people get honest), it would seem that the majority do not. Of course, another way to work the numbers is 200 shows per year, at $125 each. That means 4 shows per weekend average. Of course, when quoting any amount of income from magic, you have to account that it isn't a regular job. Because it is your business and not a salaried job for someone else, there is a gross income, and a net income. Many performers are known for boasting their gross income, and omitting the fact that they spent $50K to make their $75K per year. (Also note - From some of the threads I read in the fall, lots of birthday entertainers were complaining about a lack of shows.) - Donald P.S. There is some interesting insight about average income on this previous thread (further into the thread): Magic Café thread titled... Why don't ......al job!?
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Bernie Balloons Elite user N.Y.C. 480 Posts |
Last year I spent a little over $25,000 in expenses I am from NYC so everything is to much money here the phone book (i am not doing this year it stinks) cost me $5,940 I think has to be inflated because of where I live Even the storage unit I got is $120.00 a month and it is only 5 X 8 but I did do a bit over 275 events last year .I am lucky that I am not limited to just Magic Shows .Other magicians in my area are having some trouble but they hire me for games ,face painting ect.. so I work and they stay home .Also I do this only on the weekends I have a full time city job that my family can live off of so the extra money I make is just that
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montymagi Special user Slidell La 752 Posts |
That is all assuming that you are only doing birthday shows. However the combination I see most of is restaurant work, lets say twice a week, AND birthday and other shows on the weekend. I make in the ballpark of $200.00 a week working my restaurants and booking shows on top of that. I am part of the "part time" group and have a wonderful day job that I would not give up for anything.
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Scott Burton Inner circle 1131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-21 11:16, Bernie Balloons wrote: Wow! 275 events and a full-time job! You're a busy guy. My most was 350 gigs doing it full time and I was right burnt out. Luckily, I have been making big steps in to bring that number of shows down while bringing up the price per show quite significantly as well. Just think what you could do if you had time to market more and do more of those weekday shows. I can't beleive you haven't made the leap. Well, we all have our reasons, of course. The extra money is nice I bet. |
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Bernie Balloons Elite user N.Y.C. 480 Posts |
275 Events is only 5-6 shows a week not that hard to do .I also am lucky the way things are going I have a union city job my health care for the failey is #3.60 a week and I retire at 47 years of age with a full pension.So I will be a full timer in 15 years You can look at my website at http://www.BerniesFunHouse.com
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Paddy Inner circle Milford OH 1571 Posts |
John Kokot started this with; "According to the 2007 United States Census, the 2007 median earnings for men who worked full time was $45,113.
Based on your best conjecture, what percentage of all Magic Café members earned at least this amount performing magic for lay audiences in 2007." Then Jay Leslie added "The real question is, how many people have purchased a house with money generated in the magic business, and nothing else" The ONLY thing I do is entertaining and I make more than enough to be comfortable. I chose to live in an apartment because I just don't want to spend all my free time taking care of lawns and doing household maintenance. Peter4 |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-20 18:37, jay leslie wrote: What does a house have to do with anything if that's not one of your financial goals?
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
Especially when you don't need any $$$ down???
B
Visit My Facebook Fan Page At
www.Facebook.com/BlairMarshallMontrealMagician www.BlairMarshall.ca www.ShaZzamShow.com www.MontrealMagicien.com |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
The problem I always find trying to answer to this question is that their are so many variables.
I know of magicians who would call themselves full time but who also 1) Work in magic related fields (lecture, teach, magic shops etc.) 2) Have wives or partners with full time jobs. 3) Are 'independently wealthy'. i.e. they don't need the money from magic. 4) Live very, very, very simple lifestyles. In my city, I can think of about 5 or 6 people who would make $40,000 or more from performing magic each year. |
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Tim Hannig Inner circle Chicago area 1147 Posts |
[/quote]
What does a house have to do with anything if that's not one of your financial goals? [/quote] Amen to this. That's a big reason the economy is such a mess. People who bought homes when they had no business doing so. Of course, if you bought your house cash from money doing magic shows, then I'm impressed. : ) And if you bought your own island, then you must be really good. Way to go, Copperfield.
Author of PERFORM, the 2020 Magic Cafe Book of the Year
"I loved this book!" Ken Weber "4 out of 4 stars!" Nick Lewin "This will be a classic of magic!" Mark Pocan performbettershows.com |
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Bernie Balloons Elite user N.Y.C. 480 Posts |
I bought a nice tent to live in it only has 2 rings but I am planning to upgrade to 3 next summer
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
The idea of owning a house, is a goal that's an American dream. In some cultures around the world, you can't get married or have children till you have a house. According to my father: To see how successful a person is, all you need to do is look at their car, their home and their shoes.
There is no assumption, on my part, that a performer who has purchased a home entirely from magic, is either a good or bad. I am only throwing out, owing a home as a yardstick. Personally, I'd be just as happy living in my warehouse. What a joy it is to wake up at 3 am and go in the shop to putter around, especially when inspiration strikes. The reality is however that I need a separate place to go to unwind. With the exception of living in a big city that has no houses. a house is a good way to determine where you are on the success scale. Here is a quote. I believe it's been around for a while: An amateur is defined as a person who pursues a specific endeavor primarily for pleasure, A professional is defined as an individual who engages in a pursuit for monetary gain. There are plenty of magicians who are so wrapped up in making their performance good that they neglect marketing. There are other magicians who have a degree in business, and sell the heck out of their show, but who are not revered as icons. The initial post / question has lots of dynamics. "How many make a living". I try to compromise on staying at home all week to work on a move, as opposed to getting on the phone and making those dreaded cold calls. It would be interesting if the Gov, would release stats showing the number of people who file taxes claiming to be full time pros. Very rarely does someone come up after a show, introduce themselves, and it's a name I've heard of before.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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