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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts 
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This thing went on YouTube in 2006. I think he may have a new version now.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Dave Shepherd Regular user Washington, DC 116 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-02-22 18:58, Bill Palmer wrote: Absolutely. I've seen all those except for Tim and Sue. You're exactly right--they're all great. And they make up the tiny group of exceptions to that same routine--or a version of it--that hundreds of us do. Pretty much with the same "script," which is all about the oldest trick in magic, these solid cups, etc., etc. Suzanne does the Vernon routine with a unique script. It's a joy to watch. It's different from what the rest of us do. I'm saying "us." I do it too. I've read and heard over and over again that the Vernon routine can't be improved, and so we rely on it heavily. But Axel's routine (as well as the ones you mentioned) did something different. I agree with Kent: I think a lay audience would really go for this. It certainly made me pay attention. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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It was worth watching.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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Yes it was, but on second thought what was different about it? Gloves? No, Greg Irwin moves, each and every one. Set to music? No. Using lighting and shadows to hide moves he couldn't do in open daylight? Nice way of hiding flaws, but I doubt that's new. Routine? I saw Vernon, Ammar, and who knows how many others mixed in there. Script? What script? He had gloves, did some finger dancing, and then fell into a stock routine with no tie to anything else. Looks to me like he just threw together a collection of things from various sources.
So I ask again, what was different about it? (Don't take this the wrong way, I still liked it, flaws and all. Anything's better than "I take this ball, make it vanish. I take this other ball, make it vanish,... blah, blah, .... I see the problem, too many balls. I take this one away... it comes back! blah, blah,... Oranges!)
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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François.jpg "View Profile") New user France 62 Posts
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On 2009-02-22 13:19, JamesTong wrote: I think these are Phoenix cups James. This was nice to watch, there is some poetry in this clip, It looks like if the "Mîme Marceau" was doing a cups and balls act. Now routine and moves are classic ones. But it was pleasant to watch. thank you Kent for sharing. |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Not phoenix cups.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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I was thinking Phoenix II, but since he's European, could be something we don't readily see on our side of the pond.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Tom Fenton.jpg "View Profile") Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts
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I don't think that they're Phoenix II's.
They look like a cross between Sisti Cups and something else. So...I don't know either.
"But there isn't a door"
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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts
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If you want to read more comments about this routine go to here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=115
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-02-22 11:59, kentfgunn wrote: I'm with you on this one, Kent. Quote:
On 2009-02-22 15:02, Bill Palmer wrote: Perhaps, Bill--but only from your limited perspective. Like Kent, I was referring to the entire pantomime performance (particularly the "walking fingers" choreography set to music, the love theme and the tying in the cups and balls moves to the love theme being sung in the music). Unlike you, I was looking at the performance as a whole and not just the cups and balls moves that were incorporated therein. I found the performance charming and the originality efforts to be refreshing. That said, like BCS, I found the routine too slow for my liking. But,...I liked the originality and effort that Axel showed and strived for and I tried to acknowledge said effort.
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
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Richard Evans Inner circle 1379 Posts
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OK, so the technique was dodgy to varying degrees (hand-to-hand transfers especially) and maybe a couple of sections were a little too slow.
But...I liked the stark contrast with the black/white/red - it made those final loads look huge. I also liked the idea of doing it silently and slowly for a change: better than having to listen to yet another running commentary-style patter ('I put one here, and one here and one here...'). I even liked the cheesy ending - not something I would do, but it was a nice idea. Not necessarily better than other routines - just different. Btw, those are Monti cups, aren't they? The tops have been whacked a bit, so they look flatter.
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
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Keith Mitchell Special user 799 Posts
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On 2009-02-22 15:02, Bill Palmer wrote: Perhaps, Bill--but only from your limited perspective. [/quote] Bill Palmer with limited perspective? How can anyone say this about Bill? He is one of the most knowledgeable person I know on C&Bs, and he is well known all over the world. Limited Perspective, are you kidding? |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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I dislike the "I put it here, etc." chatter. That's why I speak in a double-talk fake Hungarian language.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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JRob Veteran user Central South Carolina 395 Posts
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I'm with you. If by "limited perspective" one means he sets a high standard for something that purports to be new and innovative, I guess he would qualify for having "limited perspective". I enjoyed watching the routine, but I didn't think there was anything particularly innovative about it. With a little polish it could be an excellent routine with elements of Vernon and Ammar with some new dressing.
"Jim Roberts, AKA: Professor Jay Rob "<br>
The Professor's Facebook Page |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
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This makes me think he needs a "director" someone to work with him. First off, to me, having one glove on then producing the second bothers me. I would do a TWO CUP routine and produce both gloves from under the cups. There are more things I would suggest, but I've not been asked.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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BCS Inner circle 1083 Posts
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It needs more special effects… just kidding. Again E for Effort!
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plungerman Loyal user 287 Posts
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Great comments, all.
The problems in the routine, to me, stem from the planning of it in that otherwise delicous spotlight. I can see a director saying, "Oh, this will be great. We can see the hands and cups so clearly." Of course what the director is missing is any experience in magic. With the washing out of the hands I didn't know he had one glove till the other appeared. The cups and hands vanishing over the horizon then coming back into the light was distracting and meaningless (uneccesary). A little broader beam with some fill light would have improved it greatly. Can anyone tell me they saw the ball appear at the end of the Charlie Miller penetration? If the ball does not appear right after it vanishes the optical/temporal illusion fails. Instead each move required him to step to one side so the spotlight could show off the result. I give him props for his execution of most of the moves (agreeing that the strike vanish was miss timed, and the balls appearing from the wand) but the lighting cheated many of the illusions. Especially the cup through cup illusion. A shame since he did it with the cups mouth down as well (seen anywhere else?). The shadows ended up hiding much more than the lights brought out. And with the cups always retreating to the darkness I was sure he was going to produce three more loads. As with most routines (including mine), more work is needed. P |
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TStone V.I.P. Stockholm, Sweden 774 Posts
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On 2009-02-24 13:04, Pete Biro wrote: Well, you're not seeing it in the proper context. This is from Axel's 40 minutes production "Rök och Speglar", which was performed for two days in 2006. This clip was shot during the first of those two performances. The cups and balls were used as a segue between two parts of the show - and using one single glove was an essential part of the preceeding part. Quote:
On 2009-02-24 07:41, JRob wrote: The word "purport" was new to me, so I looked it up: to present, esp. deliberately, the appearance of being; profess or claim, often falsely. To which I feel the urge to reply with a big "W", followed with a "T" and the famous "F". My young friend Axel is a modest and humble person. He has never claimed it was innovative, so, JRob, I really don't understand your comment. In 2006 Axel was attending the first year (of three) at an Event production school. What was studied was marketing and everything else surrounding a production. So Axel put together this show as vehicle for his studies. And to challenge himself to come up with 40 minutes of material that was brand new to him. What is seen on this clip is Axel doing the C&B for an audience, for the first time ever. I think he did pretty well! |
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts
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If what TStone says is true, then why post it online for all to see (and criticize)?
The main purpose of the cup-through-cup move is to subliminally show the cups empty. Doing it after the balls are produced, vanished and reproduced negates this aspect of the move. I think we give the "fair sex" short shrift if we think that they, especially, would "go gaga" over this routine. What? Gaga over fingers walking? What is it about this routine that would make anyone go gaga, except, perhaps, magicians forever looking for that "something different." I think, watching this routine, most lay(wo)men would fall asleep. The one thing I liked about the routine was when it was, finally, over. |
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ramoss New user 31 Posts
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Whether gloved or ungloved, walking fingers across the mat is not entertaining. It looks like a hokey waste of time and did nothing to set up the actual magic. In fact boring your audience is probably the worst way to introduce magic. Take away a sense of mystery, suspense and skill and then somehow try to get it back with the actual routine. Not a good business model for performing IMHO. The C&B routine was OK, fairly standard with most of the vanishes quite well done. But why ruin it with a silly intro? Maybe if the intro was part of a preceding routine or theme, but even then it detracted from the total performance.
Bob |
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Posted: Feb 23, 2009 12:59 am 
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