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Jay Buchanan Special user New Jersey 512 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-28 15:42, darkstar757 wrote: Who is judging you? I completely respect that you have this opinion that TA is a major disappointment and not worth the money. I also respect that the crowd that you hang with probably shares the same opinion, we do tend to draw circles of similar tastes to ourselves throughout life. That's one of the greatest things about the TA set to me. It wasn't spread thin to please everyone. Paul has always favored a certain style of magic, and he did so here as well. Because of that, we're going to get extreme views in both directions, it would be sad if we didn't! The shame arises from one side or the other defensively attacking the opposing view without considering for a second that this is what makes the world go 'round... these differences of opinions are a great thing. Failing to see that is the shame.
Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win, by fearing to attempt. ~ Shakespeare
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animation Regular user 120 Posts |
I think the TA set is not just about the effects, to be honest I only thought that 3 effects from the set were better or the same as the tricks in my personal repertoire. Tenesgrity and muscle bend are the only effects I will actual perform because it fits my own premise of magic. Muscle bend was looked at as quite silly, but with my style I perform the bend quite seriously. This accomplishes two things for me, I get a laugh, and it plays really well for a large group because the actions are bigger. Tenesgrity looks absolutely amazing!Wow!
I liked other effects liked ripped and refried, transdental bar bet, water trap, extraordinary proof and many others. But I will never perform them to a lay audience, because I either have better effects already in my own set or the process involved for me isn't worth it. For example, Ripped and refried is great for many reasons: Great presentation, good angles, good visual effect, fairly easy to do. I will never perform it because: the gaffed card prevents me from performing all my other card effects, its not worthy as a stand alone effect( I have stronger stand alone pieces like branded for example), and its not worthy for a deck switch ( I would rather switch in for a stacked deck than this). Water trap is nice but will I get the chance to perform it, I don't think so. Prior to this release, I was never a Paul Harris fan, I never had the AOA books or much material by Paul Harris before this release. I actually bought the set to see what all the fuss was about. Anyway, the effects are good but the true value you get from the TA set is the journey you are taken through. There is tons of bonus effects, amazing interviews and advice from top class magicians. The set has helped to inspire me and motivate me to improve my perception and performance of magic, now I think that is priceless (for me anyway). |
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Douglas Lippert Inner circle E Pluribus Unum 2343 Posts |
Great post Jay. We all have different tastes. Let's not shove them down each others throats.
Doug L.
Douglas Lippert
Former I.B.M. Ring #8 Secretary |
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Engali Elite user 435 Posts |
Not really.
I wanted constructive criticisms, requested it and, from the people who were willing to do it publicly(and people who PMed in private) I got and am getting a much more balanced perspective on the project than when I read other reviews. The constructive criticisms I got did actually tell me WHY they didn't like something about an effect. Like that Transcendental Var Bet doesn't appear to be a vanish of a single card by a spectator so much as a change into another card--BTW even the Genii reviewer pointed this out and made the comment that it was more of a change and had a lengthy procedure. His review was positive yet also *constructively critical* and that's what helps me separate pure opinion from facts. That is very useful information for me. So is the fact that Ripped + Fried uses any extra, open cover card. That's more, factual information about the effects that aren't opinion that help me make a decision on a product. So is knowing that Dunn Deal requires repeated use of the B***** S****--to me that's very valuable information. All these bits of information are facts--what I use to make a decision about a product and not vague opinions that don't really amount to anything useful to make a decision as opinions are subjective. Facts are not. Now I don't necessarily have to agree with the poster's opinion, but their reasoning and the FACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THE EFFECT APPEARS is extremely useful to me. It doesn't necessarily mean that I won't end up liking the effects, but it's important to know how it the effects actually OBJECTIVELY LOOKS. I mean hey, feel free to post an extremely positive review about the product--I'm not already biased as you say. But if you do that I DO want to know WHY you think certain effects are as great as they are, how they're advancements above and beyond current available handlings, in what way some effect is cleaner/more direct/more powerful than ones already out there. And if there's anything that you think you didn't like about maybe one effect, say what it was and why also. |
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ricardo carpenter Regular user 107 Posts |
Jay,
You are right. Conversation should be promoted. In my case, yes , I tend to look for "informations" before buying someting which cost a lot. Especially in the magic field. Here it's more than opinions, it reflect the "feelings". And the feeling I get here and there doesn't convince me. May be I'm wrong.( Iknow how AOA is good.) What I'm looking for is a new AOA in video, and I doesn't't "feel" it is that. So I "feel "it's not for me. I need,want, to have great expectations for getting this. I want to feel DESIRE. I don't' want to possess. Kissadookie, you are right too: if I make a point I have to accept reactions. Sure. But, no, I don't want to go on personnal attacks. And, yes, this hype is agressive. |
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darkstar757 New user 29 Posts |
I don't need to drop "the name". What kind of sad test is this? You don't like TA so you must be making things up. No way you could actually have any skill or know anyone remotely talented. I'm very lucky that a family friend is a very famous magician who I can call, and meet up with when I like. Of course in knowing him you meet others also.
I keep saying I'm just going to leave. But I just have such compassion for how people are reacting. A community is only as good as it's parts, what does that say about the Café? |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
Totally appreciate that last post Engali. Seriously, one of the more intelligent ones thus far. Feel free to PM me and pick my brain as to, for example, why the positives of the Dunn's Deal makes something like the B***** S**** phase so insignificant.
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Engali Elite user 435 Posts |
JUST to quickly clarify--the beginning of my last post "Not really." was not in response to Doug Lippert saying that Jay's comments were good. I agree with Jay Buchannan--disagreeing with kisadookie. Couldn;t edit in time.
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
Well Darkstar, you shouldn't have been so busy trying to boast about the girls on their knees, your mentors, your circle, you VIP lounge, etc. etc. But since you did, you might as well do some name dropping, it's not like at this point you're being taken all that seriously anymore.
And Engali, again, loved the post prior to your last, you can PM me and we can discuss the pros and cons on TA, as I have a couple that I personally don't feel was all that great, but as a whole, TA is truly amazing. |
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Engali Elite user 435 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-28 16:02, kissdadookie wrote: Okay, well why don't we be fair and compare it to another OOTW. To be really fair, let's compare it to Galaxy. How does the addition of the B***** S**** make the OOTW effect stronger than Galaxy? Does it cut out handling you might have to do after the deal down by the spectator? |
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darkstar757 New user 29 Posts |
Listen man. Why is that boasting? I was in a VIP lounge, and I get invited out a lot...because of my MAGIC. Get me? Your the one saying I had no crudentials and "I bet you've never seen Tommy Wonder ACR...tsk tsk". Let's post a video of Darkstar...get Korn tickets. What is wrong with this community. It's a funny thing how you can just state exactly what your doing with your night, just to show that your magic must be fairly good to be invited to events....and your boasting...mocked...a fraud...people post private videos of you.
This place is just horrible. All for stating I didn't care for TA. The only reason I keep saying this stuff is you guys should really reflect on the attitude at Café. This is just prime of why no one says much anything negative about products...people bounce on your character and point and make fun like school children. Really. This should be a place for magicians to speak their minds rather it's more of a "defend me...I'm going in" environment. |
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Engali Elite user 435 Posts |
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On 2009-02-28 16:06, kissdadookie wrote: That's cool kissadookie...but why aren't you willing to just post them PUBLICLY here in this forum? That's what I don't get--even positive reviewers are saying that there are things that aren't for them or they didn't like as much, but those very positive reviewers are reluctant to say WHAT they are and WHY publicly. Are you gonna prove me right here kissadookie? Is it taboo to say openly what you didn't like and why? If not, and if you have the time, why not give me a brief review that points out the good and the bad right here where it benefits all would-be buyers? |
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Joe Roberts Special user 860 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-28 15:09, Engali wrote: Engali, Darkstar chose to make this personal, not anyone else here. I was not the one who brought up him going to the "sky deck" with beautiful women and a "personal waiter." Apparently he thought it was relevant to the conversation, I just happened to comment on what he had already brought to the table. I didn't attack his character, I attacked literally the "Character" he was playing here. But he's the one who brought it up. If I say, "this set isn't good" and my best reasoning that you should listen to my opinion is that I'm partying with babes that night because of my magic, I think that logic begs to be debated. I chose to do so by pointing out the ridiculousness of it. But HE was the one who made this a conversation about his personal life, not me. But hey, nice try making it look like I brought it up first! And perhaps you missed the part where I talked about the merits of the effects that Darkstar mentioned as not being good. Oh, that's right, only negatives opinions carry any weight with you. In fact, it's almost like you're selectively reading posts in a sad attempt to prove your point. In fact I know you are because you just asked a question I already answered in my post. You can spare me the rhetoric about disappointing you; you're not the type of person I mind disappointing. |
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Joe Roberts Special user 860 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-28 15:42, darkstar757 wrote: You're not neccesarily SUPPOSED to be embarrassed by them, but the fact you took them down hours after someone mentioned them suggests you might be. |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
Because I already did post it publicly, especially in regards to Dunn's Deal. Guess you didn't read it. However, I PMd you Engali, I hope your last post wasn't trying to stir something because I'm trying to be a gentleman here.
You really should've read my posts carefully instead of skimming through them Engali. If you did you would have seen some of my dislikes and reasons why. |
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ricardo carpenter Regular user 107 Posts |
What said Engali is very constructive.
I read somewhere someone talking about the journey in the TA set. Please, give us an insight of this beautiful and valuable journey, if it can't be tricks. For example, " the books of wonder" is one of the best books I ever read. Great tricks. But there is a lot of these tricks I will never perform. I don't care: the real secrets in this book, the real magic is WHAT Tommy Wonder tells us about what he knows about magic, misdirection, public, situations , psychology, art, ethic... It's not just a book of tricks. (and they are very, very good: very well structured...) So, for you true lovers of the TA set (and I understand that when you love something, somebody, you don't want it, he, to be attacked. sincere attitude) can you give me, us, who are still hesitate (because I lied: I'm still balancing) an insight of what the PROJECT of the TA set is. What we get in the whole? |
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mayniac Special user 616 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-28 16:11, darkstar757 wrote: Amen! For goodness sake, this place is getting so annoying! Nobody can say what they want without somebody reprimanding (SP?) them! Thank you Darkstar for giving an honest opinion. |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
Ricardo, you can answer your own question by reading the older threads and posts Ricardo. There's lots of valid positive posts about TA which makes it look like hype (one can say No Country for Old Men was hype, or this year's Slumgdog Millionaire was hype too, but they were both cream of the crop and the consensus agrees, I guess whenever there's a majority then that becomes hype? go figure) but when it comes to negative posts, they've been summing up to very little apart from the person telling others that TA is a rip off because it wasn't their style of magic. That's like saying the Godfather is all hype because one doesn't like gangster films.
Mayniac, I suggest you read this whole thread from the beginning, then you'll have a better understanding of what's going on, if you are going to answer back with "Why should I?" then you've more or less proved my point as well as made yourself and Darkstar even sillier. He's quite entertaining with his VIP lounge comments. You should have read the girl on their knees one. If anything Mayniac, just go back to read Darkstar's comments, they are worth a couple of laughs. |
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Joe Roberts Special user 860 Posts |
No offense, but if Darkstar is your posterboy for people coming here and posting an honest opinion full of constructive criticism and then getting "attacked" for no reason you may want re-examine this as being an issue and take another look at his posts on this thread.
I, for one, attacked Darkstar for being a tool, not for his opinion on TA. |
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Engali Elite user 435 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-02-28 16:14, Joe Roberts wrote: That's not really accurate because you're blurring the meaning of "making it personal." You're equating darkstar making claims about his personal life to you attacking his character--they're very different things. Now, I would agree that his claims about his life, while an attempt to establish credibility, are largely irrelevant(and mildly pompous) it doesn't bring a debate to unnecessary detour quite in the same way you questioning his integrity and honesty does. His claims about his life were ignored by me anyway. But now he has defend his integrity, which you challenged, and then we're off topic--and I don't know if you noticed, but several others joined you in mocking him afterwards. I tried to see the videos, but they were gone. I would like to know if the videos in question somehow proved he doesn't have the lifestyle he claims, because if they don't conclusively then it's a bit unfair to essentially call him a liar just because you found an embarassing clip of him--I'm sure we all have one locating around somewhere. And it's not that only negative views hold wright with me, look up a couple posts and read what I wrote--you're wrong. It's just that the more critical reviews so far have given me the most FACTUAL information like I already mentioned about the effects instead of anecdotes about how you adapted Dunn Deal with a clever twist of a presentation. You did say that it let you not touch the deck afterward...but after WHAT? If everything before the B***** S****, COMPARED TO GALAXY, looks dodgy then I'd be inclined to use Galaxy. That would be useful information. And it's great that there's a version out there where Ripped and Fryed can have the spectator feel the restoration, but that's NOT the version that everyone is gonna get, is it? So keeping comments on topic with what's actually on the TA set of DVDs would be good. |
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