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SilentTuba New user New Jersey 65 Posts |
I play several different instruments (with varying degrees of success, I assure you) as a part of my daily professional life (elementary/middle school band teacher). As I read the thread on finger exercises, it was really the first I had ever thought about doing exercises to improve the dexterity and independence of my fingers. The more I thought about it, I realized that because I've been doing music for so long, I've already developed that kind of dexterity. I did it long before I ever took up magic as a hobby.
This got me thinking about how else being a musician has helped me with magic. Another way is discipline. When I was in college, I usually spent 3-4 hours a day practicing my instrument...and that's intense, focused practice time. While I'm not nearly this regimented with magic (not yet, anyway...we'll see when my Card College books arrive), the ability to take something, slow it down as much as possible, and focus on the subtleties and minutiae of it is a skill that DEFNITELY helps in learning magic (and anything else, for that matter). I am comfortable performing in front of people. Showing a group of people a magic trick, does not frighten me, because I am used to performing. I'm sure there are other skills and experiences that transfer, and I'm sure there are ways magic has improved my music, too. So, I ask....how many people here on the Café play an instrument??? Professionally, semi-professionally, or as a hobby??? Do you think being a musician has helped you as a magician, and vice versa??? I think (hope) the answers will be very interesting, indeed.
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." -Frank Zappa
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professorwhut Inner circle Posts R US sold me 1353 Posts |
You will find that there are many musicians here as well as visual artists.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.
TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut] |
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Chappo Special user Bris Vegas 754 Posts |
Agreed. Whether or not they will accept you for what you are (namely a hybrid of two skill sets) is another thing altogether. Not meaning to be so pessimistic but the magical brotherhood doesn't seem to be particularly welcoming to the magician-muso. The tribalistic animosity that I experienced as a jazz saxophonist was really quite startling.
:hmmm:
The rules of a sleight of hand artist, Are three, and all others are vain,
The 1st & the 2nd are practice... And the 3rd one is practice again - 'Magic of the Hands', Edward Victor (1940) |
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Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts |
I play accoustic guitar and ukulele myself.
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Vos New user 4 Posts |
I have been a drummer for 20+ years, but I don't see how banging on things with aggression will help my magic..lol. I do have excellent rhythm, though, so maybe that will help.
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DanielCoyne Special user Western Massachussetts 544 Posts |
Singer in a rock band from age 10 to 14. Five years of piano, followed by 10 years of all kinds of percussion, followed by drumming on and off for various kinds of bands. I've also been a singer for much of that time.
I think my relationship with music has helped me in a bazillion ways. Other helpful pursuits include juggling and acting. Interesting observation: while all of my performing over the years has certainly helped me in magic, I find that I am much more nervous to perform as a magician than anything else. -Daniel |
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kendavis Regular user 182 Posts |
Silent Tuba's advise to start with slow movements was excellent and is not always utilized by magic instructors and beginners. When was the last time anyone heard someone on a DVD say, "Practice this slowly at first. Do not attempt to increase the speed until you have mastered the basic movement". Sometimes I have to remind myself to slow down while learning a new sleight of hand move.
I am going back to that thread on finger exercises to see if the exercises will improve the loss of dexterity due to my arthritis. Thanks for your post. You may have reopened a door for me. |
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JazzyMatt New user Texas 24 Posts |
I've been playing the trombone for 20+ years, I switched back and forth to tuba back in middle and high school. The advice to start with slow movements is excellent and somthing I've always done due to my musical background as well.Whereas in music I was to taught to sing it first if you have trouble playing it cause if you can't sing it, you almost certainly can'nt play it. This thinking helps in practing magic as well I'll go through the motions along with my patter one step at a time repeating the first step several times then moving on to step 2 then adding 1 and 2 together repeating them and so on. I havent noticed it helping me with dexterity much , mainly due to small hands and some pain I've been an electrician for 15+ years as well and twisting wire nuts and turning screws wears you down =P. The main thing that I notice is being able to process several things at once in my mind,and not let my thinking show, such as visualizing the sleights and moves ahead,or being able to work with both hands at ease I am able to acomplish a lot sleights, palms etc. in both hands with ease. Now, performing in front of people is different for me. I play in my church orchestra every sunday to a crowd of about 400. I also play lead trombone in a band for paying gigs any where from 3 to four gigs a month which requires me to be out front so to speak for solo's sectionals whatever. But, when it comes to performing close up magic, I have never felt more nervous in my life. It to me is way different than say playing under a spot light at some country club or bar. A good close up magic effect is way more intimate and personal in some way. I guess that's my problem is that I overthink it in that area. Of course I'm probably overthinking it here, but, does my nervousness show? I'm sure it has and it may again, but it's usually overcome fairly quickly plus I do know how to distract myself from those nervous reactions.
great post thanks Matt |
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Nearly all artistically inclined people are drawn to different artistic disciplines. Some are lucky enough to either just have one great love, or to find their vocation early on in life, while others are like human pinball machines between all kinds of different arts.
Some people do many different things and achieve fame for only one of them, although it may not be what they themselves feel they do best. Some people achieve fame in other fields they DON'T do well, because they are famous for doing well another. And some people are annoyingly great at anything. In art school I remember a teacher claiming that you couldn't have more than one vocation. While I agree that it is difficult to achieve a very high level of skill within many different fields (things take time), I have always found that you carry what you learn from one field with you into others. When I quit painting and took up photography again, I had improved enormously from studying composition and anatomy and from learning how to see more. I have had the same experience within other things I have done (film, design, writing, etc). In my case I could have wished for more focus on fewer things, but if I should happen to live very long, I might have time to actually finish something. I'm not sure what music has brought to my magic, if anything. It is less clear to me. But I'm sure it hasn't hurt. Finger dexterity, as you point out, may be one such thing. But who really knows what things would have been like if we had been different people.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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pradell Special user Alaska 560 Posts |
Being a jazz mugician is fun. Yes, music and magic can combine. Vernon performed magic like jazz. Some of his card tricks had many different endings or "outs" and he would have fun with his performing and change the routine in the middle of the trick. Watch Lennart Green with a deck of cards. Once you are so comfortable in the moves and the technical aspects of your instrument, prop, etc., you can free yourself to have fun with your audience. Sports can be the same way. In the middle of a basketball game, a fight, a sprint, skiing, karate, whatever, at times you are not thinking any more. You are in the groove. Hot. Confident. On autopilot. Instincts take over. In control. So practice enough so that you can put down the sheet music, magic instructions, etc. Play by ear. Listen to your audience. They are reacting to you as you interact with them. Don't focus on fear. Let the music of the magic stimulate your creativity and communicate with the audience. It doesn't always happen in each performance. But once you're there, you're on fire. Work on tempo. Dynamics. Creshendo. Pianissimo. Concentrate on the silence between the notes.
These are the performances we live for and remember. :magicrabbit: |
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Chappo Special user Bris Vegas 754 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-03-15 16:41, pradell wrote: Best post of this thread. Hat's off to you sir, that was bl**dy beautiful to read.
The rules of a sleight of hand artist, Are three, and all others are vain,
The 1st & the 2nd are practice... And the 3rd one is practice again - 'Magic of the Hands', Edward Victor (1940) |
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homegrown New user Toronto, Canada 85 Posts |
Agreed to the post above.
I do dabble around with music- been playing piano for 16 years (i'm only 21!), picked up the electric bass in high school, and now onto guitar as well. But for some reason, I hate the strumming, prefer to be plucking the strings as I did with the bass... Did it help with finger dexterity? I'm not sure. I do pick up on some tricks and sleights etc, easier, but I struggle with others.. i.e. tiki cut, and some various forms of the pass... My 2 cents (watch me turn it into a dime!) |
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pradell Special user Alaska 560 Posts |
Thanks Chappo and Homegrown!
:magicrabbit: |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
This is a fascinating subject. I'm pretty good at sleight-of-hand with just about anything except small white docile birds. After almost 35 years doing magic for a living I decided that I would finally learn to play the guitar.
EVERYONE I know who did both magic and played an instrument said, "Man, you will nail it! Look how good you are with cards and coins and stuff...." Weeeeeelllllllllllll...... I know how to practice and have practiced fairly hard and every day on my guitar....and I can tell you that at least for me there seems to be NO crossover from the one to the other! Magic may have taught me how to 'stick to it' until I reach a particular goal, practice wise, but I I've been working fairly regularly for a couple of years and still am working on my basic chords shifts, etc. G to D to C, etc. still bedevil me. Oh, I'm getting there. That's not the problem..... It just does not seem that the 'practice' of 'hand' magic has somehow 'gifted' me with a dexterity that somehow translates over to Guitar. I have come to the conclusion that making this mistake can in fact inhibit the acquisition of another and differing skill set outside of magic. For instance....if you were to look carefully at the skill set needed to play the guitar well and the skill set to do good sleight-of-hand magic you would see to amazingly different skill forms. Here's an example: Generally speaking a great musician WANTS folks to see the skill that he or she uses to produce music. I have always loved to watch what a great musician DOES. But, in a very real sense what a magician 'does' is never seen. ONLY the AFFECT of what he does. This is one of reasons why I think Flourishes have become so popular. It is one area that a magician can cut loose and 'show 'em' what ya got! The point is that a magician practices for a goal that diverges radically from that of a musician and thus any 'exercises' to be truly effective must take that divergence in goal into account. All best,
Brad Burt
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SilentTuba New user New Jersey 65 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-03-17 16:37, Brad Burt wrote: I must respectfully disagree with the above statement. Great musicians care about one thing: producing great music. One of the things that always turns me off is when someone starts playing a really technical showpiece at an absurd tempo. Sure, it's difficult to do, and it sounds impressive, but it's played so fast that it's missing any character or musicality. A great musician has the MUSIC, not his own ego. Just like the magician....it's the product, the effect, that counts. Off topic Brad, but have you taken any lessons on your guitar??? Guitar in particular is finicky about finger and hand positions, and if you haven't been to a teacher, I strongly suggest it. I think you'll find you progress much faster in a few weeks taking regular lessons than you have in the time you've been trying to learn on your own. Good luck!!!
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." -Frank Zappa
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BCS Inner circle 1083 Posts |
I love music but am so rhythmically challenged that I have taught myself to play the stereo. My music of choice is jazz and I am a sucker for any type of trio. Piano, a small drum kit and standup bass are my favorite.
Thanks, Bruce |
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cardboardninjas New user 50 Posts |
I didn't realize this until the other day but being able to play guitar really helps with finger dexterity. I've been playing for 6-7 years now and can stretch my fingers apart really far. I never realized this until my friend saw me doing the hot-shot cut and couldn't believe that it didn't hurt my fingers. He tried to put the deck in the position and couldn't do it. When I first learned this cut, I didn't really have to stretch my fingers much farther than I already could from being able to play the guitar.
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Andreas S. New user Germany 60 Posts |
I used to play in different bands, playing synthesizer, guitar, bombard and percussion. Mostly I did progressive rock and Heavy Metal. I believe you can find some old live videos on youtube, searching for "Twilight passion".
I came to magic after my last band quit and I needed a break. I had a lot of free time, so I there was time for a new hobby. Today my workroom contains both of the two worlds. On the left side I have all the music instruments, synthesizers, guitars, drums and so on. On th right side of the room, there are all the magic props, like Books, DVD's, Cards, Paper, Scissors, a lot of pencils and all the other things. My girlfriend doesn't like this room. I'm not very serious when I say, the biggest different between doing magic and playing in a band, is the lack of democracy. When I do magic, I can do what I want. Playing in a band means, 4-6 different opinions on every chord, every riff, every melodie... Today, I'm doing a bit of electronic music together with a local DJ and of course a lot of magic. I don't know, if any of my musical skills helped me with doing magic, except of the contacts to local pubs and the knowledge of being on stage. Maybe I have to think about it again. |
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
SilentT....I was unclear...yes, the first order of biz for a musician IS to make great music, but we were talking about exercises vis-a-vis music/magic conjunction. Thus my comments were slanted to that end. A musician doesn't need, nor generally want to 'hide' what they are doing. Even before picking up a guitar I enjoyed watching what the musician, particularly in the case of guitar was doing to produce their music.
That's all. The exercises that one would devise to make it easier to be 'good' at palming off a card and getting it back on unnoticed would be singularly different from those designed to allow one a more facial command of the fretboard. I have had lessons and you are correct....helped a lot. Thanks and best,
Brad Burt
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Jannick Ockelmann New user Hamburg 3 Posts |
I play the piano for about 10 years now and the drums for about 5 years.
The piano play has definitely improved my finger speed and dexterity and I think I partly owe it to piano playing that I can perform very well without being nervous. |
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