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SullyMagic
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Here's one of my performance videos of The Invisible Palm:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZizYPY_AoQ

I genuinely love this routine, this is the type of routine that isn't AS great as some more simplistic stuff to perform on real people but it's fantastic as a magician to work on and perfect and so on.

If you've got the time, would love some feedback on my performance, where you think my weakpoints are and so on.

This particular version is by a french magician called Arnaud Chevrier, obviously a variation on Larry Jenning's classic effect.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers.
RS1963
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I would like to say not bad but I can't here's why.

Need work on the Vernon transfer move. The card being added to the ace(s) on the table was visible each time meaning what you are doing to add the card is not being hidden at all. Also on the last vanish I would keep hands further away from the packet or spectators will suspect that somehow you added the card quickly.

I can tell by watching this that you will do it well but at this time it needs to be improved in the areas I mentioned. I hope I'm not sounding harsh. I'm just being honest. Keep working on it you will get it to where it looks very good. Also slow down a bit. Seem to be running thru it quickly. Let each vanish and appearance sink in before moving to the next one.

Randy
Lawrence O
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I wouldn't be as severe as RS 1963 and more severe at the same time.

If you want to improve on the effect don't go for technical improvement: make it more magical. Input a nice script, make a character for yourself...

The technical research brings you into doing the effect for yourself in a bubble: it's a pure skill showing off and not the least magical.

Go towards magic rather than purist technical inversion: technique will always follow.

Check this thread on the invisible palm
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=2
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
RS1963
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Lawrence I agree with what your saying but not the part of not improving the technical part. That is one flaw a lot of performers have they think that just because they don't perform the actions of the routine well it's still ok because there presentation is good. Sure the spectators can be entertained but there still not going to say the performer is a good magician. Good technique and good performance skills are both important to being a good magician.

I will say again I do believe that sullymagic will do this effect very well with more practice It's obvious that he cares what it will look like otherwise he would not have asked. I hope he will take My bad review and work on perfecting what is wrong.
edh
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Here's my take on it. On the laydown of the aces you do a sliding motion that I see many do. In my opinion that telegraphs exactly what it is you are doing and gives the effect away. Try to eliminate the sliding motion when you lay down the aces.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Daegs
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When doing the first transfer(the first red ace), the motion needs to be the aces moving away from the area that they were just in. Instead in your video, the motion is the hand with the suppose to be hidden ace moving towards the tabled two cards. Then after this motion is shown, the relaxed motion of dropping the 2 apparent aces on the table occurs.

The 2 apparent aces moving away should be the focused motion, and the secret addition should be the relaxed movement.

Also, the common beginner mistake of having a sliding movement when each ace is produced is noticeable, instead if you hit the tabled double with the side of your hand, the simple act of turning the hand over will separate it from the other, that way there needs to be no sliding for the production.


Finally, spend more time on the parts where you are suppose to have a card palmed but really don't.... currently those are given a rush treatment so most of the time is spent on double handling where nothing should actually be happening in the routine. The focus of the routine should be when you are "invisibly" palming a card, only in your video that gets half a second of "look my hand is empty, bang the card appears". The focus then shifts onto the handling of doubles(which should be boring to a spectator as they shouldn't suspect the double) instead of the routine itself.
tstark
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The motivation in the Vernon transfer is to move the cards on the table out of the way to make room for the cards being set down. In your video you made a dash for the cards on the table as you set the cards in your left hand in another location. Work on the choreography and timing a little more, but you do have a very good beginning.
slyhand
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From someone who does not know the routine.
I thought it looked real good.
I am getting so tired of slitting the throats of people who say that I am a violent psychopath.

Alec
Ben Train
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Two thoughts.

1) it seems rushed. Slow down bro!

2) You dismissed a youtube comment that I think is very apropos- before you show it's become invisible (I assume that's what's supposed to be happening...) you move the "palming" hand over the cards on the table. User MagicOnTheEdge points out that it looks like you drop it, which I agree with. You said "about people thinking I'm 'dropping' the card - there's nothing wrong with them thinking that. Because obviously nobody thinks it's REAL magic, the point is to make it look as real as possible though."

I disagree. The point is to make it look like magic (Check out Tamariz's the Magic Way). If you want to look like you're "mad fast", I suggest juggling or dancing.

I can see though from your work that's NOT what you want though. Slow it down and get rid of the passing-over-the-tabled-cards moments.

Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

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SullyMagic
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Quote: Also, the common beginner mistake of having a sliding movement when each ace is produced is noticeable, instead if you hit the tabled double with the side of your hand, the simple act of turning the hand over will separate it from the other, that way there needs to be no sliding for the production.

---

I'm not a beginner lol, I've been doing card magic for about 6 years.

And I'm fully conscious of the lay down flaw, the technique when done right should be a twist of the palm as turned and timed as such that no spread can be seen.

It's just a timing thing, occasionally I slip up on vids. If anything that's the main flaw in my eyes of my performance of TIP.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Well, then, there you have it...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
RS1963
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Sullymagic.

You said "The main flaw if anything in your eye's" is the sliding of the hand and cards. That is a smaller flaw than the Vernon transfer being seen in My opinion. If a magician sees a move than the layman will too.

Many magicians believe that just because a magician sees something a non magician won't see it. Even tho a magician knows what he has seen and a layman does not. The layman will still know he has seen something he wasn't supposed too. So that hurts the magic effect as well.

Work on the transfer move to make it so it is not seen. Also follow the advice that Ben train gave as well as the others.
Mark Powell
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I only know the routine roughly, and certainly not good enough to perform, but on first viewing I really liked it. The vanish of that last ace really got me, and even with the miracle of YouTube and rewatching, I didn't see anything.

Saying that, if you're going to use music over your magic I would've preferred something slower (a nocturne?) to build the "magic". But that's just me. Smile
jackstevens
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Prefer to see side steal and erdnase palm change for last card. Jenning's version is hard to beat. Your handling is poetic but I'm not sure it is particularly deceptive.
SullyMagic
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Quote: If a magician sees a move than the layman will too.

---

Not sure I agree with that lol. Whilst it's true that if a flaw is bad enough, even on an unconscious level people will realize as you said that they saw something they shouldn't have. This generally isn't true of most technique.

The magician knows what to look for, because you know the Vernon Transfer, how it works, the sensibilites, the weakpoints etc. Then any flaw relating to it will be amplified 10 fold to you. A laymen I very much doubt would even unconsciously spot or resignate with the slightest alignment discrepancy. Especially whilst in flow of routine in midsts of being amazed and talked at and engaged and everything else.
tedski
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Where did you get Arnaud's handling from?
Daegs
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Ted, Arnaud does have a tutorial in french floating around. He may have learned it legitimately...

Regarding the beginner comment, I didn't say you were a beginner, just that it is a common beginner mistake. Normally it is corrected during the time they are beginners, for some reason it held over for you. Though for something that is a lifelong thing, 6 years still may be beginner to many...

Finally, I think our audiences deserve only the best. To say they won't notice flaw #1, flaw #2 or flaw #3 may be correct, but they still deserve the performance to be flawless, and that is what we should strive for.

I don't want my magic to be "good enough".
Lawrence O
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Quote:
On 2009-03-15 17:21, RS1963 wrote:
...Sure the spectators can be entertained but there still not going to say the performer is a good magician. Good technique and good performance skills are both important to being a good magician.
...


The purpose of magic is not for people to say that the performer is a good magician (that's the purpose of most magicians </> magic)
The purpose of magic is to entertain people with things going against the laws of nature and/or logic (not to OPENLY boost the magician's ego).

Therefore what is needed the most here is more magic. This does not mean that I would be advocating for mediocre technique: I said and repeat that when rehearsing the magic, the technique will come along where, if working only the technique, no magic will ensue and our friend would risk keeping on doing magical jugglery in a self-centred bubble.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
SullyMagic
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Tedski in response to your question as to where I learned Arnaud's handling for this:

I used to chat to Arnaud online a few years back and he sent me a video tutorial for it. Probably about 3/4 years back now.

And 'Daegs' Yes I agree. I always strive for perfection. Although realistically I think it's an unobtainable goal. I consider myself a perfectionist and no matter how good of a performance I record or do or whatever. If I look back on it, even the next day or a few hours I tend to spot even minor things which bug me that I feel like perfecting. Missed at the time but noticed in hindsight.

Like I said I think 'perfect' or 'flawless' is literally impossible anyway. It's always in the eye of the beholder. One man's perfect is another man's shambles, one man's meat is another man's poison.

But, the strive for it is fun and I'll continue to play with it Smile.

All the best.
Ben Train
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I'm confused.

You asked for feedback but then systematically argued with, and rejected, virtually everything everyone said.

Do you want help, or no?

B.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
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