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mickey.w
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I've posted something similar in the "what items to be made elite" thread, but I think the question deserves a stand-alone discussion.

I don't know about you guys, but for me the design of these props are indeed really fancy and cool-looking. It makes me want to have a look at them even if they have nothing to do with magic.

That is the point---Tenyo products look so cool in the design, any reasonable audience would want to take a look at them, simply because the design is very appealing and would draw a want to get our hands on them for a closer look; even when they have no intention of figuring the trick out or to bust the magician.

And it indeed does put them off if they are not allowed to look at the prop in their hands, esp. when they really say they just want to have a closer look at this rare prop that they will probably never see sometime soon in their lives again.

Same goes to most magic effects where valuable or special items are brought to the effect--e.g. the Relic, some magicians would want to begin the presentation by handing the thing out and give a brief introduction to it, simply because of the specialness to the prop. (I don't know, could be just me).


so maybe an idea of the "elite" line is that, for all those non-examinable versions, they are to come with an examinable dupe that allows spectators to satisfy their appreciation to the design.

I know that means more cost in the production, but does anyone feel the same on this?
Jonathan Townsend
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Ustaad
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Quote:
On 2009-03-21 12:53, mickey.w wrote:
* So maybe an idea of the "elite" line is that, for all those non-examinable versions, they are to come with an examinable dupe that allows spectators to satisfy their appreciation to the design.

* I know that means more cost in the production, but does anyone feel the same on this?



Good idea! And yes, I am with you on this.

Smile
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Peter Loughran
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Hey Guys we have already taken this idea into consideration when we first started the project. And that is one of the things we would like to do for most of the items when it is econimical for the consumer. Right now out of the first 4 tricks we are releasing this year, tentively 3 of the 4 will be fully examinable props.

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Peter.
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wjkrysak
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Examinable, shemainable, presentation and audience view make the difference. We can work it out. I am looking at the improved quality. Just my thoughts. cheaha bill
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Steve Brooks
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As Peter pointed out, we do hope to have many of the Tenyo Elite items made in such a way that if so desired they could be handed out for examination.

However, please know and understand that this may be virtually impossible with some Tenyo items due to their very concept and design (The Blue Crystal comes to mind). Also, do not forget that in many cases the good folks at Tenyo may or may not authorize us to implement such a design change to their products. Remember - Tenyo of Japan has final say on most everything that we do and who are we to argue? Just so you know... Smile
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Angelo Carbone
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I would love to see a metal Prison Box for the following reason. Although it is currently examinable, because it is made of plastic, the upper frame can move slightly when examining. This is because it is just a thin plastic frame. If it was all metal and thus more sturdy, the upper frame would not give/sway and would be absolutely perfect.

Owners of the prop would understand what I mean.

Angelo
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Steve Brooks
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We would love to eventually include Prison Box in the Elite line. Smile
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mickey.w
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Quote:
However, please know and understand that this may be virtually impossible with some Tenyo items due to their very concept and design (The Blue Crystal comes to mind). Also, do not forget that in many cases the good folks at Tenyo may or may not authorize us to implement such a design change to their products. Remember - Tenyo of Japan has final say on most everything that we do and who are we to argue? Just so you know... Smile


Sorry Steve if I haven't made myself clear enough; I never proposed, or thought of, making any changes to the original design;
I am raising the idea of adding the option of Examinable DUPES that could let the audience handle the prop.

I do think Tenyo Japan will understand the demand for examinable dupes.
again, it would be the idea of a DUPE, Things like "Cutting edge", "Oh no", and "Blue Crystal".

And I think this is an especially important issue to be concerned to Tenyo Items than it is to other regular products out there.

As I have explained, the demand for Dupes is NOT primarily to let the magician give out props for EXAMINATION the tenyo item, but rather, to simply HANDLE the prop with their hands to appreciate the prop's aesthetics, since it is the BEAUTY IN THE DESIGN that induced the spectators' need.

Tenyo elite was made to discriminate ameteurs and target it to the pros out there who actually thinks through their stuff before they perform it. Hence all the details to satisfying their spectators are what they concern when they purchase an effect.

Only bad magicians need to let their spectator examine everything, however if the prop itself is designed to look interesting, the professional performer would want to eliminate the distraction coming from the prop by allowing it to be handled by the spectator, or at least assure them that they can look at the prop AFTER the effect is over, so the spectators can be allowed to enjoy the effect without be distracted by their continuous thought of wanting to handle the prop.

The exact case went to the popular 'WOW'. I sure any experienced magician could pull the trick off without letting the spectator wishing to EXAMINE the sleeve, but the rare Design made the audience wanted to simply Handle it to figure out what it actually is.

It was for this very reason, WOW did decide to come out with dupes as an Option a period after it's release.

Of course, it was easy for them, as the manufacturing process of dupes for WOW is the same. Hence not much of a cost issue, that is not so much of the same story for Tenyo items. could be similar, as the same outlook is all that requires for a DUPE.


The major issue, as pointed out by Peter, will be all the extra costs to establish manufacturing lines for dupes, which was addressed from my first post already. I agree that is an issue to the consumers, and even more of an issue to the guys at Tenyo Elite (being you guys, I know it's a risk to bear, as to all investments.)

However, a big reason why Tenyo Japan never came out with examinable Dupes for their plastic versions was because they are selling it to KIDS at TOYS R' US. And the pricetag speaks a lot there. At the same time, KIDS don't need to be satisfied nor concerned on such a careful thought that concerns the performance aspect.
But if the target is now to professional magicians who desire comprehensiveness in building their routines, and will treat their purchase as more of an Investment, I do think the case is not quite the same.

All I am asking for, is the idea to look into how big of a demand are we looking at. for one thing, collectors has always been a big market of Tenyo, and they are highly likely to appreciate the idea and concern less on costs, the same applies to professional performers. Whether that extends to the other portions of the market will be what's worth looking at.

again I thank you all so much for giving response on the subject, I do think it is not a unique thought to all those people who loves and hates Tenyo items out there.

-Mic
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