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mindpunisher
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>>>THis isn't working too well, therefore I have to say that if you don't undestand what I'm saying, it's MY fault.
What I'm saying is basically two things. The first is that no-on can hypnotise themselves to the depth where they can dump and old programme and insert another. For in order for that to be achieved PROPERLY then the critical factor needs to be removed. <<<

Actually you don't need hypnosis to dump old programmes. I have developed a system that enable clients to do it themselves without hypnosis. To be honest hypnosis is just one tool. By itself its not that effective.

You can actually create any part in your mind. Including one that switches off your critical faculty. Ive experimented most of my life with this. But for similicity sake here is one way.

When you are in a deeply relaxed state thourough progressive relaxation or whatever. Tell yourself " In the next few seconds I am going to open my eyes then I will close my eyes and when I close them I'll go 10 times deeper". Do this a few times until you do deepen your trance.

Then try this suggestion. "When I count to three I am going to switch off my critical mind and allow what ever wants to happen to happen". Count to three and just switch off. I have felt my whole body go into spasms flashing lights and feeling like electricity rush through my body.

I have done this conversationally in the past with women I was seeing and had them have uncontrolable orgasms in public or the phone.

If you want some very simple ways to start conditioning yourself.

Simplest induction similar to stage. Just clasp your hands and focus on them and tell yourself your concentration is getting deeper. Just do that for half an hour few times a week.

Or close your eyes and imagine a light at the top of your head. And focus on it for as long as you can relaxing your body.

Youl be surprised what will happen if you stick with it. Increasing the time you do this as you go.
mindpunisher
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The problem I think you are having Bobser is you are thinking too much. Hypnosis critcal faculty etc are all just labels and theories to help us understand the intangable. They aren't real just useful.

Also we hallucinate on a regular basis. When we read into situations inaccurately. When we have our keys in front of us on the table but can't find them. When we forget someone's name we know very well. It goes on.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2009-03-28 10:12, mindpunisher wrote:
I have done this conversationally in the past with women I was seeing and had them have uncontrolable orgasms in public or the phone.


Finally MP you've come up with a marketable e-book. excellent!
Seriously though, I'm okay with everything you say. It doesn't sound UN-plausible and if someone says so I like to assume they're correct and get involved in the game. I'm gonna' have a right good go at that stuff. Ta (although it does sound incredibly similar to deep meditation techniques I have studied over many years).

And yes Andy, we'll have a go together the next time I'm up the road. I've also got some new stuff I want to show you.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Hypnosis and meditation are really the same thing in my mind. I think the point is you stick with something simple and increase the lenght of time you do it. Once you start to experience some of the deep stuff. Eg energy releases you can start to give yourself more suggestions.
Anthony Jacquin
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On 2009-03-28 11:00, bobser wrote:Ta (although it does sound incredibly similar to deep meditation techniques I have studied over many years).


Hi Bobser,

have you achieved/experienced anything other than relaxation with these deep meditation techniques?

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

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bobser
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Hi Ant,
I have studied quite a few methods of relaxation and meditation over quite a few years. Did a fair bit of TM (all good 60s & 70s cool cats did) but, although it's wonderful it doesn't really DO anything. I enjoyed training with SILVA very much and at one point believed I might just be the second coming (sad I know), but, to answer the question: When I was involved with my enquiries into Spiritualism (a thing I didn't believe in) I have to admit, in spite of my disbeliefs, I experienced many wonderful things in meditation within circles. Some of them could be claimed to be quite evidential of... oh I don't know. The problem is that as you experience more and gain more knowledge you call it something else. But I try to remain open. I don't have any argument at all with what MP says, however I don't think, in reality, we're talking about the same thing. This is probably far too deep for a medium such as this and deserves an open discussion which needs to be argued and inspected verbally.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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I am talking about two things really. One is creating some of the phenomena normally experienced in 'hypnosis'by yourself.

And second taking yourself into a state where you experience intense states.

Ive been doing this since I was at school. Its just something I accept as being the norm. However I do realise that some people have trouble with this. But where I differ I think from Bobser is that achive this by simplifying things. Where Bobser seems to switch the part of the mind back on that you need to subdue and allow another part to take over.

Bobser intellectualises and may have beliefs that are counter productive. I am not even aware of any beliefs. To me I think its about switching that part off or subduing temporary.

As for self hypnosis. There was a case in glasgow once where a member of the chinese community Tongs was hacked up pretty bad by a rival gang. He survied acoording to the news because he was able to go into a relaxed state and slow down blood loss. Self hypnosis if you ask me. Then there are stories of those having minor ops with no anaesthetic just self hypnosis.

It undoubtably exists. Perhaps Bobsers expectations of what hypnosis might be doesn't exist?
bobser
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Ok let's say we're getting closer. I'm happy with all of that. Let's say Joe can slow his heart down, He can slow his blood flow, He can switch off pain. He can enjoy a piece of music that he previously didn't like and can laugh in the heavy cold rain on the way to work.
He can do all of the above simply by deciding to do enter a certain state and he's well practiced in that discipline.
BUT, I'm saying that, although Joe can do all of the above, simply by puttting himself in the same state that he does for the above, he won't be able to snap his fingers and truly believe that he's the school nit inspector and begin checking people's hair or truly believe that he's Elvis Presley.
Does THIS make sense? I'm (possibly)arguing for another state within the state, or a deeper depth. But probably a place where the critical factor has to leave the mind of Joe for the second set of actions to take place.

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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How do you know they truly believe they are Elvis? But I know what you mean. I don't have answer to that. Only that I personally don't want to experience it anyway.

Today because of this conversation I tried something I haven't tried for years. I was conned into going along to a really boring lecture which I paid £40 to get in. Don't ask how I got roped in. It was the most dull lecture I've ever attended.

So pass the time and forget about the £40 I tried to see if I could get arm catalepsy and arm levitation giong on myself. Not done it in years. And sure enough I managed after a while. Then took my thoughts away from my arm and just let it continue jerking upwards in small uncontrollable movements.

Yes the lecture was that truly boring and I was going to cry at spending the £40.

You seem to separate the stage state from all other states. I think the most accurate description is that it is deeper than the others.

However if you talk to subjects over a period of time youl find that they don't all have the same experience.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2009-03-29 10:49, mindpunisher wrote:
1)How do you know they truly believe they are Elvis?

2) if you talk to subjects over a period of time youl find that they don't all have the same experience.

If I can answer the second part first: Yes I know they don't all have the same experience, but I enjoy greatly talking to the hypnotee post hypnosis. I have to say that in the main, most of the stage hypnotists I've talked to don't seem to have any great desire, or indeed any whatsoever, in talking to the hypnotees after wake-up. But I believe there' a great deal to learn by doing this. And this in itself answers the first part. I know certain persons believed they were Elvis because they actually told me so... in greater or lesser detail. Some absolutely believing it whilst others, at the other end of the spectrum, realising at the time they were merely acting it out but very happy to go with it. And then you get the ones in the middle. Like one guy who said: "It was like 2 things were happenng at the same time. I absolutely believed I was Elvis 100% and yet I'd have momentary flashes of questioning this before lapsing into full belief that I was."
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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About 80% of the ones I spoke to couldn't remember anything. With the others saying they knew what they were doing but couldn't stop themselves. I spoke to a lot over the years. Last year I was at my cousins for a meal and was pestered to do some hypnosis. There were 8 of us. One a young guy 21 went like a tonne of bricks at the table. We had a good laugh as he entertained us for the evening.

Once he was out of trance he didn't believe it. However the really funny thing was after two hours being in trance we all had a different beer. Including him a different brand. It was as if the two hours had been erased from his life. He awoke looking really puzzled at the change in his beer.

People showed him pics on their phone of some of the things he was doing. He couldn't believe it. Next day some of it was coming back but only a few fuzzy memories.

That seems to be typical of the people ive spoken to over the years.
andyboyhypnotist
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I recomend talking to the stage volunteers after the show and like mp says
they don't remember much but felt an unsual drive to "become" or feel/see
the sugestions, I find there is lots to learn from them and cant understand why the hypnotist wouldnt want to talk to them.
I along with you bobser would love to know what is going on at that point where you are elvis? what it feels like?
I could never get up on stage and volunteer (is that wrong? - being a performer?)
but trying it out then seeing if I could do myself is well worth looking into
cheers for the thread bobser
andy
mindpunisher
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>>>>I could never get up on stage and volunteer (is that wrong? - being a performer?)
but trying it out then seeing if I could do myself is well worth looking into
cheers for the thread bobser
andy <<<<

No it just means your not crazy.
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