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MagicSanta
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Bummer deals...I only went by what the paper said. Why wouldn't they allow them to be run down with an armor car?

I checked and you are correct, San Jose is crime ridden, here are 2005 numbers from the district attorney.

Evil crime ridden streets of San Jose, population around a million folks.
Violent Crimes: 3492 murder: 26 Force rape: 263

Lovely resort town of Oakland, population just under 400,000 beautiful people
Violent Crimes: 5692 Murder: 93 (slow year they tried to double it in 2007) Force Rape: 306

The town people drive through Union City, population 70,000 humans
Volent Crimes: 418 Murdres: 3 Force Rape: 15

Clearly no matter how you look at it San Jose is a horrible place. Of course if they close highway 880 South at around Union City the violent crime rate would drop in San Jose.
balducci
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This neat little page lets you compare the crime rate in a city to the national average:

http://www.cityrating.com/crimestatistics.asp

http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?......state=CA

Unfortunately, it doesn't break down East San Jose vs San Jose proper.
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MagicSanta
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East San Jose in the 70s was where the Mexicans lived and it had a well earned bad reputation (kind of like Richmond California has now and Oakland always has). There were gangs and all that but a couple decades ago the gangs put their problems aside. Silicon Valley changed things and the demographics of East San Jose changed until now the older areas (half of what is considered 'East' San Jose is now million dollar plus homes) are mostly Asian now with more Indians moving in and the main crime problems are teens, surprise. I lived in South San Jose, North San Jose is pretty much all industrial, West San Jose older residential and pretty much the same as East San Jose as far as safety, I am not afraid to go into any part of the city. The last violent crime in East SJ I saw on the news was actually a murder at a fast food joint done by a guy out of Oakland who was visiting. To be honest with you right now the most exclusive neighborhoods are in East San Jose but they do not like using the term and if you were to look up Evergreen Valley that is East San Jose and the highschools in the area are much improved but again there are a lot of teens. There are no more crimes now in East San Jose as their are in South or West San Jose but, clearly, some still believe that things were as they were in the 70's. I think my sisters house in South SJ has as much crime as any area of East and if you say South San Jose people think of nice neighborhoods. Tom is of the age where, when he was a teen, East San Jose would have had the bad rep and I can see why he would think it is the same, many do.

San Jose is on the list of best major cities to live in pretty much every time.
balducci
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Catch and release:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/s......nal/home

OTTAWA — Canadian sailors apprehended a band of Somali pirates at gunpoint early Sunday morning after a seven-hour pursuit across the Gulf of Aden, much of it under the cover of night.

HMCS Winnipeg, sailing off the Horn of Africa as part of a NATO-led anti-piracy mission, was escorting a United Nations food shipment when it happened on a skiff carrying seven bandits attempting to hijack the MV Front Ardenne, an 80,000-tonne tanker from Norway.

The Somalis ignored warning shots fired by a Canadian naval helicopter and fled the scene. HMCS Winnipeg, led by Commander Craig Baines, left the food shipment to other NATO vessels and gave chase.

An American ship also joined the pursuit. It was the Canadians who got to the pirates first.

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Also on Saturday, Dutch marines foiled a short-lived hijacking of a Greek-owned tanker, saving about 20 seamen from being added to a hostage list that currently is in excess of 300 people, according to a count by the Associated Press.

Like Canada's sailors, the Dutch were forced to release their captives.

The Canadian and the Dutch sailors, for example, are permitted to detain pirates only if they attack Canadian and Dutch citizens or property. Otherwise, they must disarm them and set them free.

“There have been a lot of comments in the media about how much easier it was a couple hundred years ago, when we could just hang them from the yard arm,” Canadian Rear Admiral Bob Davidson said in an interview with CTV's Question Period Sunday. “There's the rule of law that needs to be applied, so we're not currently regularly detaining them, no. There are all kinds of challenges with that.”
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
EsnRedshirt
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Attention Canada and Netherlands: if you're chasing pirates along with an American vessel, please, go slower.
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-04-19 23:21, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Attention Canada and Netherlands: if you're chasing pirates along with an American vessel, please, go slower.

I sort of knew someone would make a comment like that, but the American ship would be obliged to let the Pirates go in those circumstances as well.

"The Canadian sailors, like their NATO allies, lack the authority to make arrests in international waters."

I'm pretty sure America is also in NATO.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
EsnRedshirt
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Great. Well, they're out a few guns. All they have to do is sail back home and pick up some more. Brilliant way to get rid of pirates. That's just about the most ineffective way to police the waters I've ever heard of.
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nums
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Quote:
On 2009-04-19 15:42, EsnRedshirt wrote:
Nums-
Police (or at least SWAT) need to carry automatic weapons- or at least semi-automatic weapons- when the criminals start walking around wearing military combat armor. Standard issue firearms just don't have the stopping power to counter it.

And when the criminals are also carrying automatic weapons, the risks to innocent life are too high- the cops need to be able to take down someone like that quickly, before they kill people.

-Erik



AUTOMATIC weapons are not very controllable and therefore not accurate. They, the police would be better off with larger caliber, with larger projectiles and more powder, which when made to carry, as opposed to be vehicle mounted, tend not to be auto matic. One well place 50 caliber round would drop an armor wearing culprit. If it did not pierce the armor it would knock him on his ass. One would be better off in this situation to have a semi jacketed hollow piont that would maximize the power of the bullet and it would be like getting hit with a sledge hammer.

I still stand that NO police office needs to carry an auto matic weapon. Semi automatic yes, but the number of "bullet proof" vest wearing criminals out there are few and far between.



NUMS
MagicSanta
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I don't know...I still like the idea of running 'em over with the armor car.

Numsy, I've a serious question. I was talking to a friend of mine in a state that is very restrictive on weapons, I won't say which state but it rymes with malinormia. My friend couldn't get a part for his AK47 sent to him in....malinormia.... which is required to make it fully automatic and he wanted to get the weapon done before a president I won't name changes the laws etc (he is one of those worried about that) so basically since I can get the part I got it for him blah blah blah. Here is my question. Why do they bother to not sell automatic weapons if it is pretty easy, at least outside of...malinormia... to get the parts to convert from semi auto to auto? I hate stupid laws and I think if they can upgrade them they might as well buy fully auto. It should be noted my friend is a retired businessman who has zero criminal history and is wealthy and just happens to enjoy ripping loose with all kinds of heavy weapons so he absolutely isn't going to use the weapon for anything but recreation. What the deal?

(ps: I know, I'm a gun smuggler now, as far as I know it was a car part okay?)
EsnRedshirt
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NUMS-
I seem to recall hearing that when police forces do carry automatic weapons, they're converted to semi-auto only. I agree with this policy- see below for why. I don't want to restrict them, however, when they need the stopping power a semi-automatic (or large caliber) weapon can provide.

Which brings me to MagicSanta's question. Like Nums pointed out, full automatic weapons are very difficult to control. Their legitimate tactical uses are only applicable in combat situations- mainly suppressive and cover fire to keep the enemy from charging or getting a clean shot while your side advances. Against lightly armored or unarmored vehicles, it's to put holes in targets (people) behind soft cover- you can't see them, so you spray and pray.

Law enforcement has zero use for these tactics. They need controlled fire against specific targets. Criminals do have a use for these tactics- and they don't care who they hit with stray bullets.

This is why there's a restriction on automatic weapons. Your friend may not have any criminal history, but if his guns are stolen, the person using them probably will.

As for recreation, automatic weapons are useless for hunting and target shooting since they're so innaccurate. I can't think of a legitimate recreational use for them, except going to a closed range and firing off a whole bunch of rounds at random, and if your friend wants to do that, maybe he needs to play more video games or go to carnival shooting rings or play paintball.

Arguing to just let people get automatic weapons since they're so easy to obtain anyway is similiar to arguing that we should just sell alcohol to minors since it's so easy for them to get it anyway.

Of course, I do realize we're shooting ourselves in the foot if there's ever a zombie uprising and regular citizens suddenly need to use military tactics. But barring that...

-Erik
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Doug Higley
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I'd still prefer a Barret in a Zombie Attack.

Also Santa...that part is seperate for the reason of...there are LAWYERS afoot.

That AK47 has a Klishnakov action...my ex-landord (an ex person since he passed away) helped Kalishnakov design that. An interesting guy and a genius was Ivan Stankovich...also a head honcho of The Yogoslavian Space Program!!! (A two man operation...very funny story about that one!!!)

nums and eric on the money about Full Auto. Movie BS. I want a Barret!!!!
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kcg5
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Quote:
On 2009-04-19 17:52, Tom Cutts wrote:
No not from gunshops. More misinformation from Santa. The body armor these guys had was top notch. They had to get military issue to bring them down... Because they could not get authorization to run 'em down with an armored car. Once the metal piercing rounds were utilized they fell like limp sacks of potatos, but it took many hours for that to come about.


Misinformation from Mr. cutts, they did go to a gun shop/sports store to buy rifles.
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kcg5
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Most military/law enforcement guns aren't full auto anymore. they found many times in vietnam that the soldiers would just squeeze the trigger for a few seconds, and no more ammo. I believe the M16 they have no are all single shot, maybe some tri-burst. Much more accurate to fire single shot anyway. My friend who recently got out of the army said you could rip a piece of cardboard off the MRE (Meals Ready to Eat) box, and insert into the gun housing making it full auto.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



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MagicSanta
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Again I'm not a gun guy, I can tell the difference between a revolver and a pistol that uses a clip, that is about it. I could shoot 'em and qualified in the service but never touched 'em other than when they made me.

My question was why sell the conversion if they are not allowed to make something automatic, I don't care what they do or don't do with them as long as it isn't in the direction of anything living. I don't like stupid laws. For example it use to be legal (or could still be) legal to purchase a slim jim or whatever the door lock opener is called. They could sell it to you, you could buy it, but once the transaction was done you were in pocession of burgular tools and could be arrested if not licensed. You can go into a shop and have tint put on your car windows that can legally be sold and applied but once you hit the gas it is illegal. There are all kinds of things you can buy for cars you can't use. So don't let them sell them!

I think my friends main reason for wanting a fully auto AK is because he gets to build it, he's a mechanical guy, and also it is the old issue of wanthing what you can't have, kind of an fu to the man.
Doug Higley
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The only 'cool' full auto is the Tommy Gun. Still inaccurate but devistaing power close-up and badass image. 'Calling all cars..."
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kcg5
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Im with you santa. My buddy has a ar15, which looks like a shorter version of an m16, an its legal in ca (semi auto), as long as a "tool" is used to eject the magazine. In the letter of the law, a bullet is a "tool", there is a spot on teh gun to put the tip of a bullet to eject the clip. To even get the gun, you have to order all the parts yourself and build it. Many of the gun laws make no sense in ca.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



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EsnRedshirt
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Doug,

Barretts are very nice. I was actually disappointed by the Governator's decision to restrict .50 cal sniper rifles in CA, as they do have a legitimate recreational use- extreme long range target shooting. (Besides, when you consider how expensive each round of ammunition is, even if someone steals the rifle, they won't be able to afford the ammo.)

However, their usage in a zombie attack is questionable, depending primarily on the size of the uprising, and how many zombies you can get to stand in a straight line. I'd personally prefer a Heckler & Koch CAWS. A combat shotgun is perfect for a large scale zombie invasion- great for dealing with multiple undead targets in an urban setting, with a good scatter at short range, and brain-popping goodness at point-blank. Pity they cancelled production.

Oh yes, and a good, sharp axe as a backup weapon- never runs out of ammo, and easier than a sword to dislodge if the business end should get stuck inside a de-reanimated corpse.

-Erik
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MagicSanta
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Can you kill a zombie with a shot? Doesn't it have to be a special bullet or something?
EsnRedshirt
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That's werewolves- need silver bullets. Zombies can be killed by decapitation or any wound which destroys the brain. Both a .50 cal round, and a cartridge full of buckshot can fit this bill.

Dunno why it works, but most experts agree: it does.
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Doug Higley
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With you on the CAWS! But I intend to be at a long range though and just pick'em off. They'll never hear the report.
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