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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
I recently landed a gig in my market area with an upscale japanese restaurant. As I do virtually all restaurants I am trying to book on a regular basis, I offer a free evening of entertainment on a day/evening of their choice (in hopes of securing more regular work, of course), and as long as it fits into my current performing schedule. This restaurant has a special costume party theme once a month and has decided they want me to perform the evening they kick off this special event (which goes on throughout the spring and summer months, and I believe even into the fall).
I am pushing real hard to get into the restaurant market where I live, having moved here only about five years ago. I have a man who is a professional videographer who is helping me to put together highly professional video footage (he has broadcast-grade equipment, overhead boom crane, special robot cameras, etc). In efforts to secure more restaurant work, I am wanting to put together some video footage of me performing at actual restaurants, getting the excited and amazed reactions of the patrons, etc. I asked the manager recently if they would mind me bringing in a cameraman for a short while that evening, and told them about putting together a promo video, etc. They told me that they don't mind the video being taken, as long as they can get a copy of the footage and use it for their own promotional use. I wasn't sure what to make of that, especially since I am doing a free strolling performance for them that evening and I am paying the videographer out of my own pocket. Of course I realize that they are putting up something themselves since they are providing the venue for me to perform in, but I was a bit unsure how to respond to their request, especially since I'm not sure how the videographer will feel about it. I've searched the Café for this particular topic, but didn't come up with any real information from previous threads over the years. My basic questions are these: Who out there has experienced this sort of thing? Is it common for restaurants and other places to ask for this sort of thing, and is it okay to just give them what they want? Mind you, my questions revolve around the business aspect of doing such a thing, and aren't really about the artistic aspect of what makes a good video clip. I know that has been discussed in detail in the past, and that some of you here are quite qualified to speak on many aspects of video production. The restaurant is locally owned and operated, and is opening a new branch in the Kansas City area, just a few hours from where I live. I want to establish a good working relationship with these people, and don't really see any harm in relinquishing any video footage for the most part, but I am a bit uncertain what to think. Consequently, I am looking for some input from some of you other professionals out there who are willing to offer it. Thanks in advance for any and all input. CW
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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noble1 Special user 651 Posts |
Let them use a copy of the tape. It's good for both of you as long as you do a great job at the gig. Don't worry they aren't other magicians who want to copy your act and it's hard to see how you would be hurt in any way by this. Besides, if you want these guys to employ you perhaps you will establish a little bit of extra good will for no extra effort. What have got to lose?
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
O Noble 1,
I think you are right. As I already mentioned, I don't really see any harm in passing on a copy of the video footage, but I think perhaps I needed a second or third opinion. The strange thing is that the clips will really only be showcasing me and what I do, and not really the restaurant, unless they request that. I suppose that they could take the footage and edit it along with other stuff they may already have. I really want to do anything I can to help their business, so perhaps it is a good opportunity to show myself as even more valuable than they imagined. I welcome any other input that anyone has to offer. Shanx. CW
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
Curt: I don't see a problem with handing footage to the owner, however, your biggest problem may be people not wanting to be filmed, or at the very least, very self conscious being filmed while they eat and/or watch you. You may even want to prepare a simple "release" form for them to sign off on before you film. You don't want to capture a great set on film then have some married guy tell you to destroy it because he's there with his girlfriend. Just some entanglements you may want to avoid . . .
Doug |
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echomagic Veteran user 344 Posts |
I agree, the release form would be a very good idea. Strangers may not wish to have video of their family floating around. Especially when they have no control over the final product. Perhaps you could even get your own friends to come to the restaurant for dinner and film them on your video.
My suggestion regarding the video that you release for the Restaurant use: Make two copies. One, the long version that you could critique yourself and keep it as a more complete copy of the evening. The second version should be edited and be less than 5 minutes long. Basically, highlights of the magic that was performed. This is the version you should give to the restaurant and be included in any promotional material that you would use in the future. |
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Excellent advice.
Doug--that is actually part of what I had in mind that may be a potential problem. I have seen some release forms online for such a thing, but I don't want to get too...well...bureaucratic(?). I think I will definitely have something on hand in case I need it, but will try to keep it simple. I expect many people to be in costumes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't be recognizable. Thanks for your input. Echomagic, your advice is sound as well. I'm definitely not going to give them ALL of the footage that is recorded that night (how would they know anyway?). Good idea to give them only what I want them to have. I appreciate you guys. CW
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-19 01:09, CurtWaltermire wrote: What are your goals with getting this footage? To get your face and name out there, correct? Now, if you're the only one using it to promote yourself, that's fine. If a restaurant likes your work so much that they are willing to associate you with it's BRAND... Bingo, this will be a relationship for LIFE! Let them use it with absolutely no hesitation. Add one stipend, if they are going to use your image in their promotional material, their advertising needs to also include your name. They should be fine with this. What type of material do they want to use the footage for? TV commercial? Web-stuff? I think it's all gold. Rather than yourself being the only channel for promotion, you will essentially be "endorsed" by a prominent restaurant. I see absolutely NO negatives to this! Also, Doug is correct. A release not only "should" be used, but in most cases, MUST be used. It doesn't have to be a lengthy legal contract, but you may want to contact your lawyer for the proper documentation.
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Jeff,
They have not mentioned what exactly that they wanted to use the footage for. I would definitely like to know what they have in mind. The owner of the place has been busy getting ready to open a second location near Kansas City, so I've been dealing with her manager, who doesn't provide a whole lot of information. You're right; either way any promotion connecting me with the restaurant is definitely a plus. I don't think they will have a problem with me adding your recommended stipend, either. Do you think I should get this in writing before giving them a copy of the footage? Would that really be necessary? I have a tendency to focus on building relationships and trust, and not really making a paperwork shuffle a very big deal; however I think that most clients worth working for usually understand such things and aren't likely to stumble at the idea of getting things in writing. Some even see it as MORE professional than just operating on each other's word alone, depending upon what it is. Anyway, thanks. I appreciate your input. CW
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I think a lot of the point is being missed here.
First let me just say that from a restaurant owners perspective, when do you plan on them watching the video? These are very very busy people and I am not sure too many will be able to find the time to watch. Heck most can't find the time to want to meet with you! My feeling is once you are out of the room you are gone and forgotten. My point is you are breaking a lot of rock over this, and it will be a much bigger pain than you may think, and I am not sure how much return you will get from the result. I mean first off I promise you will not get all the footage you wish in one night. It takes not only being able to have permission, but the ability to set up shots and such. I know your goal, but am not sure it will be reached in one night. Of course the owner wants you to go to the expense of shooting the video. Makes sense. If you happen to get 10 seconds of footage he can use, great for him. If not then he is out nothing. Not even your fee. Just keep in mind what you are paying, for THEIR promo footage. You are doing the night for free, and paying the video team and I assume you are then paying to have your own version edited. This is just a very expensive proposition, and you have to consider what your return is going to be. I wish you the best.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Danny,
Thanks for your perspective. The interesting thing is that the restaurant that I'm working that evening actually asked for video footage of my restaurant work a while back. I didn't have any. Though I don't necessarily believe that restaurant owners have time to watch video clips of me performing either(or anyone else for that matter), having some short segments of me performing in restaurants live on video couldn't hurt, in my opinion. In this particular gig, I will be in more of a strolling environment than typical restaurant work, but it may be a mixture of both people sitting at tables, and people milling about, according to what they have described to me about the event. Footage like that could be used in a much broader sense, and wouldn't necessarily be showcasing me as a restaurant magician only. Anyway, the long and short of that is that because they asked for it initially to determine whether or not they wanted to hire me, I thought it might be a good idea to pursue getting some footage of that for a future promotional video. I'm not sure how much return I will get from the result either, but I will say that since the videographer is a good, long-time friend of a friend of mine, I am getting it done pretty reasonably. Part of the deal is that this man is needing footage to generate a promotional video for himself and his video business, and I am giving him something to put in those videos. You're quite right that it is unlikely I will get good enough footage in one evening, but I have to start somewhere. As far as missing the point is concerned, I'm not so sure that it is being missed. I realize that you didn't have the whole story, but up until now I didn't see a need to share all aspects of what I have going on. What you are saying about the owner (which is an Asian woman, by the way) receiving free promo footage in addition to a free evening of entertainment is the reason that I started the thread to begin with. I wasn't convinced that it was the wisest thing to just agree to right off-the-bat, so I presented a brief explanation for others to chime in about here on the forum. After some careful consideration, I think that due to the fact that I am able to produce a high-quality video shoot for a fraction of what most people would spend, I don't see I have much to lose in that regard; also, if it makes me look all the more professional and over-the-top to a new client, then all the better. She has built a successful restaurant business without me, but if I can come along and push it over the edge a little farther... I think the pros greatly outweigh the cons at this point. Am I sticking my neck out a little? Sure. I hope she doesn't step on my head. I guess that is just part of the risks that we take. Thanks again, Danny, and others, for all your input and perspective. I think I'm going to give it a go and see where it gets me. I really don't think I have anything too substantial to lose, though exactly how much can be gained from it remains to be seen. CW
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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BarryRice New user Indianapolis, IN 88 Posts |
I would do it in a heartbeat. If she doesn't use it, it is like you never gave it to her. If she does use it then you have additional exposure, possibly even television exposure.
I agree that you need releases from the people filmed. You may also want to reserve the right to request that the restaurant owner stop using the footage if you don't like what she is doing with it. I would hesitate to enforce this as even bad publicity can be good publicity, but it is a good tool to have if you need it.
"The magic of the tongue is the most dangerous of all spells."
-Edward George Earle Lytton Bulwer-Lytton http://www.amazingbarry.com |
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Ron Vergilio Special user Murrieta, CA 835 Posts |
Perhaps they might use it as part of a local TV ad that they want to run. A plus attraction for them to draw people in.
Ron |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Why not get your crew and barnstorm several bars and restaurants. Come in and start doing magic at someone's table and film it. Film them throwing you out, etc. Could get some great footage that way. This is the way to go!!
-=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Tabman,
NOW WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT????
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Good luck with it. If I lived closer I'd produce it for you.
-=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Tabman is good at video and editing... believe me.
HOWEVER... If I were doing it I would NOT use a boom and lights and big setups UNLESS you bring in a table full of your friends to "model". You could do it when the restaurant is closed, that way you don't bother anyone and you will be sure of releases. One of David Copperfield's early successful photo shoots was done this way. He arranged a high-end restaurant and I shot the effect while the place was closed. We had friends all seated at the table. The shot was David levitating someone over the table full of food, etc. (I bet The Super-X has been used in more PR photos than any other illusion)!!! You can shoot things over a few times to get the best reactions, etc. I would have a camera shoot script and plan. Have the restaurant provide free food for the models.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-25 12:11, Pete Biro wrote:...I would NOT use a boom and lights... UNLESS you bring in a table full of your friends to "model". Run and gun!! The bring friends is a great idea but to me shooting without at least the activity of the restaurant not going on in the BG would take away from the realism. To me it's all about being real. Maybe bring a few friends to sit at surrounding tables and to act as wait staff and bouncer. Quote:
Have the restaurant provide free food for the models. And the crew!!! -=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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msmaster Special user 522 Posts |
Seems like the run and gun method will give real spontaneous footage without having to do the million takes they use on a Blaine shoot.
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts |
Curt, did you ever figger out what you were going to do???
-=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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shakes New user 59 Posts |
Hey man,
I've been reading most of the posts and have to say that I agree with 99% of what was said. I think this is a great idea but having shot a few of these, I can tell you that it's going to be a little time consuming. I definatley think you need to get a release form especialy for kids. I was filming the outside of a resturant recently that had my name on the marque (excuse my spelling) and I had someone come over to me and wanted to know why I was filming her. She unfortunetly just happend to walk to her car that was in the shot. People get aprehensive when you start filming for many of the reasons that were already posted. Now on the flip side of this, I've found that if you go over and greet the table pretty much like you would when you are straight performing, they usualy don't have a problem. I think the biggest problem your going to find is the setting up. That is going to take up a bunch of space that the restuarant might not like. When I filmed I had the camera man use a tripod but he actually carried the tripod. Are you having Narraration on this demo? I read that your crew has a mike and such. Depending on the type of vid your going for some of your equipment might not be nessacary. Hope I helped a little. PM me if ya want to discuss more. Best of luck man |
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