putting cards in the oven?? does this actually straighten them back out? are there any other side effects from this (fading, wrinkling, etc...)?

sorry about all the questions, it's just that I've heard a few weird things for cards, but I think this takes the cake (no baking pun intended).

Kallak,

I have to ask you first off do you think im a little baked?...lol..
But the answer is yes but don't leave them in long just enuff to watch them uncurl then you muct put them in deck clips. Now here's another think you might find usfull are you formilular with the gag of tearing a deck of cards in half ,,,,well if not here's the idea after the deck has been in the oven for a while it becomes fridget meaning you can tear it in half, not if you find you need a thinner card but can't afford to be buying professional decks just take your cards to the oven and they will become a much more flimsier card, but be carfull they do tear much easier.

Hope that helps you out trie it (BUT DON"T FORGET THE ICING SUGAR)....LOL

hi guys
this is james from canada BC vancouver
i love card tricks ( especially Jeff McBride's)
and i want to ask that is there any magic shop in Vancouver canada where i can buy marvey's,murphy's or neilson's manipulation cards?
cause i am kinda not willing to use credit card to buy them from the net.
and..yea
thx a lot

Nielson cards are my favorite

Let me start by saying this; Some people like red cars, some blue, some black, vans , two door, four door, SUV, etc. That is why the auto makers make differnt kinds and colors of automobiles. I would buy as many manipulation and regular decks as possible. I like to collect fannning and manipulation decks so its no problem for me to buy different types.

I have found for me Bees work well for me for fanning and split fan productions because I am pretty rough with the cards. For single productions, I use Nielson manipulation decks. I powder and break in the Bees and powder the Nielson cards. I put both into card presses when not being used. I have tried the Marvey, Vernet, Murphy and the SEO Magicians cards and I do not care for them in real world manipulation. I do like the SEO Color Million cards, they quite good. I find they work better for me if I powder as opposed to waxing them as they recommend.

Would like to know of other types of manipulation cards. Like I said, I collect them.

David

YMMV, but I never found it that big a deal to go from poker to bridge size for backpalming, and I did find the bridge size easier after working with poker size. Go ahead and give it a try.

In the act, I start with a bridge size deck of bicycles. I have several things at the start that show the backs and I don't want to show the backs of the Neilson cards. Also, I got used to doing that because I started the routing with gloves making the white border a good thing.

Second the opinion about breaking in the Neilson cards, but I fully understand what Kallak is saying about not wanting to trash them during the learning process. Once you do learn the moves, and set the act, though, I would suggest getting enough decks that you can continue rehearsals with the actual props you intend to use.

Geoffrey Buckingham said it years ago, and I'll paraphrase it here. You shouldn't even wear a shirt in a show that you haven't worn for at least one full dress rehearsal.

I've also purchased a variety of manipulation cards througout the years and I always go back to Bees's even though I can BP more of the manipulation cards. One of the big reasons I like the Bee's is I can get them pretty much anywhere, Wal-Mart, Kmart, liquor store, etc. I don't have to order them online, plus they are cheaper.

I just use bee's for practicing at this stage, haven't got a manipulation deck yet but I think I might after these reccomendations

Reading over older literature and posts on the forum here, it seems like the best decks to use are the cheaper ones (I'm talking about regular playing cards here). Cheaper decks probably thinner and with less finish. The cheapest decks I found were Aviator and Torpedo brands. Have any of you tried these?

I used blue Aviator. Blue is softer than red

Aloha;

Just my take on this topic:

Began with waxed BEEs, because I like the slow and pretty controlled spread, although my cards take a lot of abuse and it is time consuming to wax them.

In '04 began ordering Nielsen pre-powdered cards and they were very fine,*I ordered by the dozens) though I found the quality was not as strong starting '08. (Lupe mentioned to me at WMS '10 that they had a different printer until 08, which shut down so it wasn't my imagination. The current batches are good, but in my opinion not quite as consistent and as easy to fan).

I tried the unpowdered Nielsens several times but they never became a favorite, possibly my powdering technique was not the best.

Recently with an order from ROBBINS I tried the Vernet cards. I was surprised they handled to well, it seems they are not powdered, just plastic backed. Still after working with them for 20 min. the fanning consistency deteriorated, probably because of oil from the palms. Still, they are thin, colored flesh at back and light. Any thoughts on getting these to perform consistencly?

I also use Jumbos at the end for a surprise, Waxed inexpensive jumbos of the kind I picked up in the ORLEANS gift shop for $1.99 I crease them in the middle, then between middle and ends for 3 creases dividing the card into 4 sections for more deceptive backpalming. (also tried only 2 creases, dividing them into 3rds, which works about as well). Either way works pretty well, but I hope to work with bigger cards, anybody out there alsow working jumbos?

I have not tried the MARVEY cards and would like to. Any links? I will look for them.

Thinking about having my own cards printed. May go back to BEEs now that I have 15 yrs of card work history.

I am amazed at Lance Burtons perfectly controlled fans, they are beautiful. I am not getting that result with my current cards and while my work is decent I am working hard to improve.

Nice meeting you all, some great info. Can you reccomend any other threads or links? Looking forward to it.

Magical Aloha

Mike Ching

The GREAT thing is it does not matter! If you can do it you can adjust to any type of card. It is a skill that can be applied to any deck.

Mike Ching -
Lance Burton Cards have been sold thru Stevens Magic. These cards are very similar to the non-powdered decks Norm Nielsen sells. $5.00 decks. Lances may have a little more plastic coating on them. Currently, I do not not have a source for Lance Burton cards.

It may be your powder technique or the weather in Hawaii. When it is very humid use less powder or none at all with Norm Neilsen's Cards, the pre-powdered decks.

Next have you warmed up the cards before practicing and performing. Put the decks in your pockets next to your body. Warm cards work better and behave better.

Waxing cards is the chosen method by many Japanese performers. I have only limited experience with this process. From the many videos I have watched and listened to professional performers, they wax the cards then work it in or smooth with the fingers or a facial Kleenex. Much like buffing the cards. The cards cannot land on the floor, this applies to powder as well. If they do you must wipe each card both sides to remove any dirt particles, before using again. After using waxed cards the wax will collect dust and build up small lumps of wax in spots. These should be buffed again to smooth out and remove the spots of build-up.

After you get the cards to glide evenly with this preparation, concentrate your pressure when creating fans. Use all fingers with even pressure and contact. Powder fans glide over one another, but card productions may need harder pressure of the fingers. Test and find which works for you best.

Consistency is necessary and proper care of the cards will help also.

Hope this helps.

Aloha Wmhegbli

Thanks for the tips.

Yes it is very humid here, especially during the summer months. I found out the hard way (during a magic competition) to keep the cards warmed in the pockets when indoor areas are cold due to AC.

I have had pretty good response with waxing, and can reuse a deck up to 6 times, but yes, the cards go everywhere.

For whatever the reason, (humidity?) powdered cards do seem to clump here a little, it is hard to keep them perfectly consistent.

I believe when Shimada worked here many years ago he did use wax, and you're right, most Japanese manipulators I've met use wax as opposed to powder,

Appreciate your thoughts!

-MC

Walter Cummins, who taught chavez and Neil Foster, used Cashmere Bouquet (a hard soap) on the cards. I have also heard about the use of the old Johnson paste wax.

I know that the manipulation cards sold by Neilsen will someday be unavailable. I know guys that are buying them by the gross to insure a future supply. I think of that every time I sweep up the cards at a contest show.

Richard

Hi Richard

Good to see you again! Thanks for the tips.

Did read a Cashmere Bouquet mention somewhere, can't wait to try it out. An "X" is drawn on the cards apparently?

Whats' your take on the MARVEY Manip cards? The VERNET cards?

Know of anything else available out there?

Magical Aloha,
-MikeC

Juliana Chen's DVD 'Original Card Shooting', explains all about waxing cards. She says she gets a year out of her decks of constant daily use.

The reason Japanese use waxing instead of powder is that Zinc Stearate Powder was not available in Japan. I heard that from a Japanese magician once years ago.

Current use may stem from being a tradition and a unwillingness not to change, or if it is not broken, why try to fix it.

Also I have noted on the magic videos that Japanese magicians also use their thin Fanning cards for productions as well. The do seem to follow the Shimada rule of a deep back palm. Where as the late Great Neil Foster brought his cards more forward in the back palm position.

Currently, Stevens Magic has manipulation cards in poker and also the oversize Fanning decks from UGM. I have the oversize cards and do not care for the way they handle.

Peter Marvey Cards come in 2 versions, standard thickness and thin thickness. I have never tried them as the Nielsen versions work very well for me. I have only read one comment about the cards in all these years they were available, and that was not satisfactory comments. Of course without knowing the experience of that person, it is hard to determine the validity of the statement. The only true test is to purchase some and try them for yourself.

I really like the Lance Burton Cards, if you can locate them, give them a try.

You also mentioned, 'after 20 minutes the fanning consistency deteriorated', I find this to be true of most smooth finish plastic coated cards. You should re-powder and continue shuffling and breaking in, gently handling the new cards.

Maybe you are using the wrong finish for your style of handling. You may have to use the what card manufacturers call a 'linen Finish', a cloth type embossed surface on the card. This looks in much of the powder on the cards. Unfortunately, these are only available in Fanning Cards. If you want to try this, click here Abbott's Magic sells this Fanning Deck with a similar design to the old Unique Magic Studio and later Supreme Magic Fanning Decks, of course these are not the thin cards, but standard thickness cards. You can always flesh color the corners of the facing cards if necessary, but as stated earlier, the Japanese magicians videos I have seen can hide this very well, some how.

Another idea and offering is to have a deck of manipulation cards custom split for your needs. Taking a linen finish card they split and re-glue the cards to a thin cards. Cards by Martin does this click here his son is said to be taking over the business. I have met several magicians that have gone this route and are very pleased with the results. Of course the cost is much higher then just buying a deck of cards.

As for Jumbo Cards I see most all the European performers using Piatnik Cards from Austria. I have a deck and they are more pliable then any other I have found.

I like Lance Burton cards....Howard

Great info Wmhegvli

Everyone actually.

Got Cashmere soap to try out, its carried here at LONG/CVS outlets.

You know, the hardest part of practicing card spinning is just picking cards off the living room floor so often. But is is good excersize. Enjoying this thread.

If you notice when Juliana Chen performs shw has a very large cloth on the stage floor. Thua when the act is over and the curtains close, she only has to pick up the ones that did not lond on the cloth. Gather the cloth into a bag and take it back stage to assemble the cards into decks. Actully she is throwing the cards in her case.