Jay Marshall told me the old Vaudeville guys used to advertise "coming East with new drop cloths:. They would carry their own drops and place them on the floor before the act to facilitate cleanup.

David and Dania do this with their confetti. I remember a girl from China at IBM in Reno doing this with all the spring flowers she had. The drop was 20 x 20 and need to be much bigger for all the stuff on the stage. About 1/2 of the stuff fell out when they tried to pick up the cloth.

I used to use a drop cloth on the stage for my salt pour. I actually made spreading the cloth out part of the routine.

Richard

Thanks Gentlemen

This thread is becoming a source for some very excellent Real-World working information. Just wanted to let you know we appreciate it.

Here in Hawaii we are having an issue where "Showstorm Shock" has caused several Venues to BAN use of confetti in magic acts. Dropcloth use might be a way around it for some. It bears trying.

I think the Halls objected to fine showstorm flake getting everywhere, from stage to floor, and tha additional staff hours needed for a total cleanup before said room was ready for the next event. Newer, more powerful ways of lifting the confetti have added to the distance the snow travels.

Dropcloths may or may not help here depending on the control of the snow flow. Good that you brought this up though.

-MikeC

I never used confetti in the co2 cannons. I used the throw streamers. They are easy to clean up and the kids will grab most of them and clean them up for you.

As you said, MIke, this is real world advice. If you leave the stage or performing area a mess, they will remember it.

My son got married last year. We had to pick up all the rose petals in the church after the ceremony. That is the real world.

Richard

I really don't like thin manipulation cards. I have a deck of Japanese Magician Cards I got from SEO magic. I got them because they are poker size and diamond-backed. But seriously I almost crease them when I do split fans ...

Does anyone have experience with red steamboats? I use bees myself, but I read that steamboats are thinner, so I thought they may be better for manipulation, but still have that snap of standard card. It seems to be the best compromise. They seem to be in short supply these days, though.

I like the feel of BEEs right-out-of-the-box, I hear STEAMBOATS are great, popularized by Jeff McBrides'DVDs I think. I googled Steamboats and found one of the best deals ($2.50) at Hank Morehouse MAGIC WAREHOUSE http://themagicwarehouse.com/CD6123/Steamboat-Cards.html

Google Steamboat Playing cards and you'll find them all over the place. Any input from those who use 'Boats onstage?

Just spent an hour with Juliana Chens' SHOOTING CARDS TECHNIQUE DVD. Interesting. Some time ago I achieved Chen-style single card production but find that Plastic cards are much superior to paper cards for this particular technique. They have a snap and recovery unnattainable with paper. Paper cards "appear" much slower, and with a bend.

Still working on the shooting technique. It truly takes dedication. Julianas' work has so much eye appeal.

Seems the great card workers do their stuff impeccably, but they also are high on charm. Ultimately it's not about the cards but how the performer presents them. If you remember the PERFORMER, Ah, there's the challenge.

Thanks to all who are contributing to this thread, I am enjoying it a great deal. Certain times in your life you really enjoy learning. This is one of them for me.

Here is a link for Lance Burton regular and ultra thin deck

http://translate.google.hr/translate?js=......ja&tl=en

Have you ever tried UGM cards ? I think that wax will work much better than powder for you.

Kipling100,
Steamboat cards are Bicycle Cards without the 'linen finish'. Steamboats are smooth surfact. Steamboats were the perfered card way back in the very old days, I don't know the correct time line but we are speaking pre plastic coating. Steamboats were very cheap cards, no coating and flexable, and the diamond design to the edge of the card. They quickly became a favorite of card manipulators. Thus the so called 'imporvements' have changed them. The current ones for sale are not what is refered to in the older card manipulation books. The only thing that is the same is the Diamond Back design.

Mike Ching,
I see you are watching Juliana Chen's DVD, if you got your DVD with the plastic cards she is now selling, I would like to pass on, she stated in a current lecture of her's that she does not use the 'all plastic' cards in her act. She still uses the original cards she sold on the market and as used in the video. The plastic cards are much heavier then the plastic coated paper originals.

You may want to pick up a copy of Jeff Sharidan's DVD #2, real perfection of fans and card shooting (different method from Ms. Chen's). click here

All cards need some breaking in before use. Riffle Shuffle and overhand shuffle, then for the Million Cards I suggest working as 'Romaine' does with his cards, flexing at different points on the deck.

That way they will not almost crease when you back palm them, but have a nice arc. This will of course straighten out when you produce them. Stevens Magic also have a nice poker size card from UGM, click here These are your answer to the old Steamboat Cards, and much thinner.

Enjoying your info, thank you, though I'm not quite sure what is meant by the types of cards Juliana is using.

What exactly IS she using for the throwing cards? It is not clear to me from this video. The all-plastics work great for the single productions, but the rest is still a little confusing to me.

Will check out the UGM cards and Sheridan DVD.

Wonderful tips!

As shown on here DVD of Shooting Cards, she uses cards made just for her by the owner of UGM. They are paper thing cards, in 3 sizes in length. Just do a search on the internet and you will find she has 2 back designs, what with a black liking of her, and a green color back design with picture. The third is hard to find in yellow. The new all totally plastic cards she was selling at conventions are not being currently used by her in her act.

Click here to view attached image.

Thanks again for your tips and advice.

Julianas DVD instantly became one of my favorite DVDs for its high production values and classy look. As a Graphic artist she made it all look beautiful, and she is gorgeous, talented and (something lost on a lot of DVDs these days) the material is well laid out, well planned and CONCISE!

I think I am missing something on first viewing though as I find it hard to understand (as you mention) using lightweight paper cards (as you describe them) as throwing cards. In my mind thin paper cards don't seem to have the weight or stiffness usually associated with throwing routines. Am I missing something here?

Maybe if your technique is exemplary you can nail it with paper-thin cards but still it confuses me. I hope I can figure it out as I really want to accomplish this technique.

On another topic, I found a brand called "ALL IN" at Walmart recently. It is a cheap brand, (about $1.09 a pack) with red (or blue) full-bleed (across entire back to the edges) diamond back print similar to red BEEs. They seem a little thin with a light linen finish and maybe a VERY light plastic finish, but I doubt it.

What I liked about them was, with very little breaking-in, and virtually NO preperation, they worked well as backpalming production cards. They "Spring" fairly well, but do not pressure-fan well as they tend to retain a bend. Just wanted to mention this for the fanatics out there.

Thanks again for following up and commenting!

I was going over some older books and materials and wanted to mention a phenomenon some of us may have noticed, but never talk about.

I think for anyone planning Magic teaching materials of any kind, it would be helpful to describe the PROPERTIES you need in the props you are demonstrating: In cards for example,weight, thinness, edges, whatever it takes to make the manip really "work". In this information age, it seems that has become critical.

We all noticed a maddening thing many of the Old Masters would do when selling manuscripts or books of thier pet effects. (They often would only resort to this during times of financial duress, and some were rather famous for keeping a critical secret or two to themselves for fear others would overtake them with their own techniques). Maybe it's not too surprising as that was the age when "Secrets were everything" and it happened in every branch of Magic.

They would give you what was more or less general knowledge, then leave out or change some of the critical details that really made the effects work, or at least "play" well. ("The Magic was in the Details") These were "little" things like If a card used wax or powder, what specific brand worked best for them, and again, what PROPERTIES of cards they sought for certain bits.

Knowing this, the JEFF McBride video manipulation series was a revelation as it dealt with a lot of details and a lot of "The real work". Things you really needed to know to achieve good results. Like classics as BOBOS COIN MAGIC and most of the TARBELL series it has a lot of integrity and knowledgeable people in Magic have no issues reccomending it.

Anyway, thanks again for your insight. We are always interested in what you have to say.

Mike,
I understand what you mean about the details left out. I still believe those details are best preserved and passed on individuallly.

I think there is an old saying that when the student is ready the teacher will appear. I have found that I have gotten those added details when I was ready to handle them.

But then I am old school as that was how I was taught.

Richard

I respect that Richard,

I was one of those who tried hard to make things work as promised in advertising. There were few or no mentors in Hawaii who knew what those details were. You can imagine in the days without Magic Café how frustrating it was to scrape up the money to order a text, find more money to build/have something constructed and find out it didn't deliver.

At least here we have a tool to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

For the dedicated, we finally have a tool to help. Magic is finally global. For me, buried in these misleading old tomes as a kid, it was a long time coming.

I use the regular Bicycle cards that you get at Walmart.. Red or Blue..
I buy the double packs and have really never used anything else..

I tried the Norm Nelison cards when I was a kid... I didn't like the over all size.. I like the cards to be bigger...

I think that it's like a card trick... As magicians when we are asked to do a card trick we don't want to have to rely on a trick deck... SO we learn to use a real deck and learn real tricks..

That's the way I use the real deck for card manipulation also... Gary Darwin in Vegas said that I have the strongest hands and fingers that he has ever seen..
Now days people use the easy cards and that's ok...

I just prefer the cards that you can buy anywhere any time...
kinda like Eddie Van Halen and a guitar... I'm sure he can rock on just about any guitar..

If you practice with these cards all of the time, even the white edges will no longer matter as you get stronger and stronger at holding the cards... with a little movement of the hand they can't see anything... I prefer the red, but use blue when I have to..

I have done this so long that I do card sleights as close up magic.... right up in peoples faces in a Café and they don't have a clue...

Has anyone else ever done it for close up and in person magic?
I just always make sure that the angles will be fine and then I go for it...

Split fans and single pops...

I hope this helps.

Try the old school cards, you'll thank me in a few years after you master the stiffer thicker cards...

Taylor Reed

Wow Taylor

Do you break them in or use right out of the box? The initial plastic finish must make for a good spread. A lot of us on this thread seem to like the bees though most seem to wax them.

I'm pretty sure Jeff McBride has his cards printed on what looks to be the same stock as the linen finish Bees or Bikes.

Thanks for your post, Good food for thought. Thanks for the tips on your table design too. A lot of us in Jeffs Mar. '08 class were impressed with it.

I normally take them out and just do it... They are pretty stiff, but make for a beautiful fan.. This is for walk around and a few teasers with the cards. For my show I normally use cards that I've held for a few days of playing with them..

I hope this helps..

TR

Much thanks!

I have heard it mentioned that generik dollar store cards work. I tried it with conterfeit bee's and they aren't very slick but with some fanning powder they are okay for productions. Not so much on the fans but thin as ever I can back palm over a dozen. More than I can say for the Neilson deck I got at Chucks House Of Magic.

Right now our show takes 2 hours to set up onsite. It’s complicated & just too long. I like the Nielsen/pre-powdered, but am thinking of just manning up and using our-of-the-box BEEs similar to Taylor Reed.

They are cheaper than anything "special made" out there, not to mentions losing the cost of postage. Hmmmm. So it's looking like 4 packs of buy-anywheres Vs. 1 pack (or less) of special prep cards. Don't try this at home; I'll let you know how it turns out for us