Hello everyone. I have spent years studying Erdnase Expert at the Card Table and I am fascinated with card cheating. I have practiced the bottom and second deals and do them rather well. I am looking for another handling of the bottom deal. I would like something closer to the strike second deal. I do not like switching grips. Just wondering if anyone knows of something similar to a normal strike second and where I can find this. Thanks,

Jason

Revolutionary Card Technique

Of course you're free to learn whatever you wanna learn. But you're posting in a GAMBLING area here, hence I feel free myself to warn you that the strike SD is not the best one to use in a gambling context.

Second, sorry man, but it's not you that decide whether your deals are good or not, but the onlookers . Maybe you could post some videos we could comment?

About sources, there are a plenty of stuff to read/watch. Revolutionary Card Technique (Ed Marlo) of course, but many booklets too. Let's name one, Second to None, by Simon Lovell (horrible drawings, but many techniques).

I must add a few words about switching grip. In my humble opinion it's mandatory to get many grips. Using only one is nothing but a dream. For instance, let's say you play a standard family tourney, say 3 hours. Or a standard cash night, say, 4-5 hours. I can assure you that at the end of the night your hands won't be in the same condition than they were at the beginning! You will be forced to change your grip. You can't deal seconds at 3am the same way you did at 10pm. Many factors are involved, heat, muscle fatigue, perspiration, etc.

Good luck.

Jason england's download on theory11 is well worth your attention he goes through various dealing grips for an excellent price.

luke

If my memory is right there is a strike bottom using the Erdnase grip in the book The card Magic Of LePaul by Paul LePaul. There is also a shooting second deal using the stradle grip in the same book and quite a lot of cool ideas.

I hope this helps.

Thank you I appreciate all of the input.

I think the bottom deal is obsolete for the poker taker table as everyone uses a cut card today. I at least have not used a bottom for at 25 years now. It seems to me one is better off learning to deal Greeks for that purpose today. Cool for magic though and an easy one to learn is Doc Dailey’s one and I think uses it’s in Vernon Inner Secrets. Clock showed a variation of it the other day and it was very nice. Walter Scott in Phantoms of the Card Table has one you could check out. If you want to learn all sorts of bottoms such as one handed bottoms and all that for magic I think Revolutionary Card Technique is cool. In any event the book is full of good stuff for magic and worth the money.

Thanks Tommy. Never heard of a greek deal, where can I find information on this?

I am not sure but I think Allan Ackerman teaches it, calls it Minus one bottom deal (Greek deal). I am not sure if Jason England teaches it but he would be the fellow to ask about it. I was shown it by a pal who is good with it. I will ask him later where he learnt it.

Jason England does have a 1-on-1 video on the greek deal (which reminds me...)

Marlo called it a Multiple Minus bottom deal.

There are many other references around that I can't recall at the moment.

I think I have some old footage of Marlo doing the Multiple Minus bottom deal and using it where he found all four aces - and the helpers and spectators called for each ace as Marlo produced it. The spectators were I think Jack Pyle, Don Alan, and Jack Kodell.

As I remember I think that this was one of Ed Marlo's pet effects.

Just looked up Jason England and I am very impressed. While at Fectors this year I had an Frenchman show me a few routines with seconds and bottoms and I was very impressed. Just thought I would spend some time correcting my form. Thanks everyone,

Jason

may I ask for your reasons ? do you think the illusion of a good deal is stronger in push off than in strike ?

That's simple, never break the cast in stone rule "be natural". Just watch average players deal cards and you'll notice that never, never you'll meet someone dealing a card from the front of the pack. You'll never see someone dealing with the left thumb behind the right one (assuming guys are right handed).

Furthermore, bad habits are frequent with the strike method. For instance, the stationnary thumb. The thumb must move! Many tilt the deck too much also.

Last, strike studs are not that convincing.

Just my opinion of course.

That was helpful indeed ... learnt something new thanks AMcD

I try to make my false deals look as much like my normal deal as possible, rather than changing grips, just my preference but I find it looks more natural. however saying that I do practise other deals for different purposes i.e. sticky cards or straight bottom dealing.

I'm not a fan either of looking at what other people do with cards as more often than not they wont be using them as much as I have, it might even be their first time using cards, even croupier's use cards differently to the general public. sorry AMcD this isn't a dig just wanted to chime in a little.

saying that I do watch the way in which people use cards just out of curiousity to see what people consider a shuffled deck, lennart green has spoken about this (great information)

luke

I just wanted to point out that looking like the others guys around the table is the best way to keep unnoticed. If you look proficient, you arouse suspicion.

Of course, if you're a pro, if you're supposed to handle cards the whole ****ing day, we all understand that you can't hold the deck like a 7 years old kid! Yet, it's not an excuse to do fancy moves.

Again, it's just my advice. You can strike deal whenever the hell you please. Do what you wanna do, I'm not the Card Cheating Holly Bible author.

I agree that being natural is the most efficient way to fit it. But what is natural. With the strike second you are dealing from the front of the deck. If your regular deal is coming from the front of the deck, you have nothing to worry about. Now if you change grips and it's very noticeable that's another story. I once read an article (keep in mind it was years ago and I don't remember the exact names) where Charlie Miller ( I think) turned to Vernon and said, look at this. He began dealing cards and asked Vernon if he saw anything. Vernon didn't and what he didn't' see was Miller changing from a Erdenase grip to a regular mechanics grip over and over again throughout the same deal. Like most topics in magic, I think this one is being way over looked. I have worked on the timing of the strike to the point that I don't have to necktie. Now this doesn't say that learning a push off isn't a bad idea. As stated above sticky cards can be a problem with a strike. As long as you aren't shooting cards over your head aka the buck twins, nobody is going to notice if your thumb on the left hand is moving more or less than it should. Just my opinion.

Well, maybe a small vid will be much more speaking.

Here's a small footage where I first perform few deals the way the average players I play with deal. Then I do some PO SD not moving the left thumb that much. As you can see, I need to move the wrist a little to increase the illusion. To me, the stationnary thumb is not that good, but you're free to judge by yourself watching this video.

http://arnold.mcdonald.free.fr/en/

Please, I'm currently working on my new website architecture/set up, so chances are great that download or display will be slow. Be patient .

Thanks it all looked very nice I even like the cards.