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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2009-05-07 14:11, stoneunhinged wrote:
Critter, I don't want to push the point, but I'm still waiting for your list of puns and verbal puzzles in Plato's Republic.


I hope you are seated with a drink as it may be some time in comming.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2009-05-07 06:05, mvmagic wrote:

I have NOT seen "Dude, where's my car?"

(But I have seen a ton of films just as intellectually challenging as "Dude" and enjoyed many of them so that proves nothing)



This brought to mind one of my favorite quotations, from a philosophy professor (amusingly enough): "I don't understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2009-05-06 17:12, Poveglia wrote:
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.


Strongly disagree, and I strongly suspect that if the filmmaker's 5 year old son said, "Me and Jimmy played football," he would correct him.

Language evolves with new concepts, and it reflects new realities, but it also devolves. Misspellings and improper uses become commonplace out of ignorance, and they become recognized and accepted. What is this but decay?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
critter
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Word.

Quote:
On 2009-05-07 15:05, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-05-06 17:12, Poveglia wrote:
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.


Strongly disagree, and I strongly suspect that if the filmmaker's 5 year old son said, "Me and Jimmy played football," he would correct him.

Language evolves with new concepts, and it reflects new realities, but it also devolves. Misspellings and improper uses become commonplace out of ignorance, and they become recognized and accepted. What is this but decay?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
critter
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Yeah, I have no intention of sitting down and doing that.
For one thing, I didn't say the Republic had puns, I said people used to use puns.
The Republic was simply cited as an example of linguistic creativity.
The protaganist uses quite a few liguistic "mazes" to trip up those he is debating with. That's a common trick in the Socratic method. I don't have the time or inclination to list them all. Mostly because I'm not debating anything, just thinking about it.
I don't even actually agree with much in the Republic, I just like how the protaganist messes with people. That is to say, with style.

Quote:
On 2009-05-07 14:36, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-05-07 14:11, stoneunhinged wrote:
Critter, I don't want to push the point, but I'm still waiting for your list of puns and verbal puzzles in Plato's Republic.


I hope you are seated with a drink as it may be some time in comming.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
The Burnaby Kid
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Why, oh why, aren't people as intellectual as I? Why, when I announce my genius, do people not fall all over themselves to agree with me?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2009-05-07 15:44, critter wrote:
I don't even actually agree with much in the Republic....


I would be fascinated to hear what you disagree with.

If you were one of my students, I would ask you the same question in class. And you would say....
Steve_Mollett
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As a tech writer, I believe in word economy.

Why waste four letters writing, "utilize," when you can write, "use?"
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The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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cardone
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I have been called a madician about 100 times ...anyone else ?
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On 2009-05-07 22:06, cardone wrote:
I have been called a madician about 100 times ...anyone else ?


No...just MAD.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
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critter
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Most of it. One thing I really didn't like was the part about the music. I like all kinds of music. It inspires me, entertains me, even just kills time. If all music had to fit a specific framework it would be like listening to the same three Taylor Swift songs over and over for the rest of your life. I, for one, would go insane.
Most of the time that I was reading "Republic," I was pretty ticked off. I liked that about it though. It had the power to tick me off.
That's sidetracking though.



Quote:
On 2009-05-07 17:04, stoneunhinged wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-05-07 15:44, critter wrote:
I don't even actually agree with much in the Republic....


I would be fascinated to hear what you disagree with.

If you were one of my students, I would ask you the same question in class. And you would say....
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
critter
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I think language is a toy and should be played with. There!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2009-05-08 16:00, critter wrote:
I think language is a toy and should be played with. There!


The library is filled with books, both very new and very old, that meet this requirement. What's the problem?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
critter
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I've already stated that this isn't a debate.

Quote:
On 2009-05-08 16:37, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-05-08 16:00, critter wrote:
I think language is a toy and should be played with. There!


The library is filled with books, both very new and very old, that meet this requirement. What's the problem?
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers
The Burnaby Kid
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Well, what sort of responses were you hoping to elicit from the original rant?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2009-05-07 15:05, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-05-06 17:12, Poveglia wrote:
I actually saw a documentary on this topic. It was basically stating that slang, ebonics etc ARE proper forms of English, just different variations of the language.

It was also saying that those who chastise other people dialects or forms of talking are actually hypocrites, because if you really want to get down to it, if you spoke "proper" English, you'd be British. And even that is NOT true since the British people have hundreds of different dialects.

So basically there is no proper way of speaking and the languages aren't "decaying", they are just evolving with the times.


Strongly disagree, and I strongly suspect that if the filmmaker's 5 year old son said, "Me and Jimmy played football," he would correct him.

Language evolves with new concepts, and it reflects new realities, but it also devolves. Misspellings and improper uses become commonplace out of ignorance, and they become recognized and accepted. What is this but decay?


Sometimes, evolution.

Not everybody should be expected to read and write as Chaucer did.

And though it irks me no end, I realize that eventually the Internet, and texting especially, are going to affect the spellings of some common words pretty soon. Even among "educated" people.

English is different from French. There's no official Academy dictating what's permissible.
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2009-05-08 15:59, critter wrote:
It had the power to tick me off.
That's sidetracking though.


Did it occur to you that Socrates was trying to tick you off? And if so, how is it sidetracking?

Sometimes I hate Internet forums. I'd really like to have a beer with you at this point.

Talking about verbal puzzles and stuff made me think you had never actually read the book. Saying you were ticked off convinces me you indeed did read it. And I feel sorry for you if your teacher was so poor that you didn't understand that getting "ticked off" is part of what made Socrates one of the greatest teachers in human history.

My suggestion: forget everything your teacher told you about the book, and read it again. And the next time, treat Socrates as if HE were your teacher instead of the poor soul who lectured you on the book. Doubt him. Hate him. Get irritated by him.

The Republic may be the single greatest book ever written by a human being. It deserves a second reading.

In fact, I think I'll read it again for the 200th time. Your post has inspired me.

Thanks!
Jonathan Townsend
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Try Peter Watt's Blindsight or Neal Stephenson's Anathema if you like the stir of echos. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
LobowolfXXX
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Or "Stir of Echoes," starring Kevin Bacon.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
ringmaster
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Do you say appear when you mean produce ?
Do you say disappear when you mean vanish?
STOP IT !
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