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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Is hypnosis play acting ? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicJono
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Its just I have been reading a lot of counter information on hypnosis lately and its messed my view up a little. The argument states that people only do things under hypnosis because they want to. Maybe my question is stupid, can anyone throw any light on these thoughts and help me get back on track. I still have not been successful thus far
Dannydoyle
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It is true. You can not make people do things they do not want to. If you think this messes with your view, I submit it is actually clearing it up some.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MagicJono
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I see your point Dannydoyle.. I do understand what you mean as I have studied thoroughly over many years. Why do we need to even get them into a trance then, can we just say stop smoking or stop getting fat.. Please don't flame me I just want to understand
Dannydoyle
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Are you talking about therapy or stage work?

I am not going to speak to therapy is all I do is stage work.

As for needing them "in trance" for stage work, see Kreskin.

See the hypnosis "show" is a theatrical endevor. People expect to see certain things. This combined with the fact that it is easier to take people where they already think they are going to go, and you have the reason for the "trance" in hypnosis shows.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WillBox
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You need the formal ritualistic nonsense of 'trance' to simply build expectation, excitement etc for the numpty who probably doesn't know or trust you yet. In situations where the emotional intensity, rapport, trust etc is already high, sometimes "stop smoking" or "eat healthily from now on" could indeed be enough. You already know this if you think about it, look at the various situations in which people influence each other and there are lots of patterns and correlations. Hypnosis isn't outside of that system, its just a certain area within it.
MagicJono
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Thanks I was referring to both circumstances as it appears now. I have found a book to order from kreskin thanks for that.

Willbox I also can understand that we are influenced in every moment by the things around us but are we saying that when you have full trust and rapport with someone there is no need for them to enter a deep state of relaxation to change there mind or perform in a certain way. I thought we were trying to get into there subconscious mind through confusion or a deep state of relaxation. Could you expand or at least point me into the right direction. Thanks for your patience, like I said I have spent a lot of time with this subject but I may be missing some fundamental parts.
Decomposed
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For the real thing, mentalism is it. Suggestions do work, trance or no trance. Kreskin knows this. Smile

For Telekinesis: that guy who never ages, has a flatop. He does it for real. It all is about the subconcious.

I think the book "They Call It Hypnosis" will answer your questions MagicJono.

Best

Candin
Paranormal Hypnotic Entertainer
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2009-05-13 14:16, MagicJono wrote:
Its just I have been reading a lot of counter information on hypnosis lately and its messed my view up a little. The argument states that people only do things under hypnosis because they want to. Maybe my question is stupid, can anyone throw any light on these thoughts and help me get back on track. I still have not been successful thus far


There are opposing beliefs about hypnosis. Personally I believe there are varying levels of suggestion within trance. I believe there is such a thing as trance. Infact we move from one trance to another constantly. For stage trance there is a hyper state of suggestability and conditioning that is not in the full control of the volunteers.

Experience tells me that there are also varied responses from person to person. and on many occasions people who haven't volunteered and did not wish to end up on stage.

How can anyone say that you will only do things in trance what you want to do? How can anyone quantify this? No one can.
Decomposed
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I was just going to summon you MP, wow.

Social Norms is what I was thinking of also. Hypnosis is not the only thing going on during a stage show is it not?

Candin
MagicJono
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Thanks Candin.

And thanks Mind punisher your thoughts are how I understand it.
Decomposed
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On 2009-05-13 15:48, mindpunisher wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-05-13 14:16, How can anyone say that you will only do things in trance what you want to do? How can anyone quantify this? No one can.


Yeah, does one really want to dive off a table ending up in the hospial because he was turned into the world's best swimmer? Good point MP.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2009-05-13 15:44, Candin wrote:

I think the book "They Call It Hypnosis" will answer your questions MagicJono.

Best

Candin
Paranormal Hypnotic Entertainer


Actually the book will explain one skewed and proven wrong view of the process.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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The thing about the word proven though is that both sides of the argument claim to have proven their stance or belief. That seems to run true in most things.

I haven't read the book Danny. So I am not commenting on your post. Only that the word proven is used too many times to win a point of view.
Dannydoyle
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I think each side of the discussion have fallen a bit short in that regard.


This book is a pretty fine example
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bobser
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When I read up on James Esdaile (Scottish hypnotist) I dumped social compliance (albeit that CAN happen of colurse).
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
MagicJono
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I think you guys are using the confusion technique on me. I WILL DO WHATEVER YOU SAY
Ray Pierce
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Quote:
On 2009-05-13 14:16, MagicJono wrote:
The argument states that people only do things under hypnosis because they want to.


That's what we all tell people as it helps make shows less intimidating. Anyone that has really studied government protocols and testing knows better. Project ARTICHOKE, Project BULEBIRD, MK-ULTRA, MK-NAOMI (Project 10-0-999 A-G) were all blind compliance programs but knowledge of that makes it hard to convince people to receive hypno-therapy or assist in a theatricl Hyp Act. So, we all say that you won't do anything under hypnosis that you wouldn't do normally.
Ray Pierce
bobser
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And in the UK we had Project Daniel O'donnell.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Decomposed
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Project Blue Book in the States debunked it all but the Inquirer independent study concluded that alien inductees were actually hypnotized into believing they were abducted.

Candin
WillBox
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Hi MagicJono - I'll just clarify my points a bit. Yes, I do believe that you can achieve waking hypnosis, subconsciously accepted suggestions on a person with no formal induction whatsoever. Its just a ritual to help the variables which normally aren't present, i.e. positive expectancy, excitement of imagination etc. There are lots of situations where people hold a powerful influence over each other - its just that only the absolutely minority have ever studied hypnosis or how to direct that influence.

Some examples - I once had a girlfriend who you might say was highly suggestible, or that we just had a very positive energy between us (i.e. trust, rapport, excitement). In a forest I gave the suggestion that the leaves were too heavy to lift, and then she wasn't able to lift them (I have studied hypnosis for years and knew how to deliver the suggestion).

The Jonestown massacre - Jim Jones was able to engineer the variables of trust and suggestibility to the extent that parents murdered their own children, by controlling the context rather than using any formal inductions.

Parents - most negative subconscious beliefs and self doubts etc that clients present with in therapy are due to childhood programming. No formal induction - just dads saying "you're stupid" or "you won't amount to much" or a mum saying "if you eat all that you'll be sick" leading to a phobia of vomiting. When parents die or divorce, the suggestion "this is your fault" can be easily accepted by children.

Stage hypnosis to me is a conscious direction of context, variables and interpersonal relationships between the audience and hypnotist, to achieve the most powerful results in the shortest time. In the context of life, the timing is more patient and the variables more hit-and-miss, but they do exist and the results are everywhere.
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