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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts 
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On 2009-07-07 05:50, Cristobal wrote: No, they just download / torrent (whatever) the rest of that author's publications. |
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Cristobal Loyal user Malaga (Spain) 288 Posts
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On 2009-07-07 06:49, kinesis wrote: It's interesting the vision you have of people. So sad and so wrong. I know people that do as I have told, and I don't believe that was so extraordinary. Honestly, I know that not everybody act like this (some do), but I don't think that people be a problem: people that download an ebook and don't value it, won't get any value from it. |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts
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I saw a study, the name of which I can't recall that investigated the damage that piracy did to music artists. Not exactly the same thing, but it's two principle findings were that:
1. The percentage people that would have purchased the music had they not had the ability to obtain it for free was very small. 2. Since that percentage is so small, piracy bestows a net-benefit on many artists, increasing their profile in their genres, merchandise and other opportunities to earn. Just an aside. It's sad to see some people still talking about using personalised 'watermarks' of some description. While it might appear a tempting solution, from a legal standpoint the possibility of bringing legal action against an original purchaser is miniscule (and also prohibitivly expensive for the vast majority of creators.) So what can be done? I agree with most of Bev's points... that being - not a lot can be done. A couple of things that do spring to mind... Slim King's method of selling roshambo I suspect would be quite effective. Someone could still write up the methodology he teaches in person, but as far as I can see, this is the best solution for controlling information. Of course, this approach isn't ideal for lengthier tomes, and some effects wouldn't lend themselves well to such instruction. Of course it requires your effect to be genuinely good and workable... otherwise it would make for embarrassing phone calls when your purchaser stops you mid flow with an objection that demonstrates that you've clearly not real-world tested it. The other method for those that still intend to publish in one capactiy or another is to ensure that you reap some value from every person who obtains your work - whether that be legally or illegally. - Selling well made prop sets that compliment the effect. I for one have plenty of manuscripts that require a fair bit of prop preparation/construction and given the choice I'd rather blow a few $ in buying a set of whatever I need. - Any manuscript that requires something of a disposable or refillable nature... find an affiliate program that will supply such a product, or buy yourself a wholesale lot of the product yourself and supply it. - Blowing your own trumpet r.e. shows and booking. - Availability for lectures. - You're other products... that yes they might pirate anyway but still.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1251 Posts
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Davit, I think I've read that study as well. Industry numbers point to a different conclusion, so it leads me to believe that the people involved in the study were being less than honest, and social desirability (an inescapable factor in all social experiments) came into play, wherein they self-justified the use of illegal downloading by claiming that they would not have purchased the music anyway.
The trend in music sales sharp decline since the advent of file sharing, much more so than other industries, seems to support the notion that file sharing has been harmful, rather than helpful, to the industry as a whole... at least with regard to record sales. Now, we could discuss the whole paradigm of the industry shifting to licensing and live performance, where records become merely an advertisement for the larger yielding profit avenues, but I think that would be outside the scope of the discussion. Thanks for reminding me of that study. Since I was 13, my dream has been to work for a record company, specifically Epic Records. While they are doing too many lay-offs at present for it to be a viable option at the moment, music will always be my biggest passion, and I can't wait until I can make my way into the industry and help it start making some money again. *hops off soap-box* Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion...
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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ElliottB Inner circle 3254 Posts
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This talk of sharing files not hurting anyone and not being stealing is ridiculous. I sell one ebook. That’s it. Ours is not a large market, where people get rich off their releases. Every sale counts and, due to the small size of the mentalism market, represents a larger percentage of total annual sales than one might think. If someone does not buy my book because they bootlegged it from a friend, then that is a material loss in relation to my sales volume. If that person gives it to another friend who might have bought my book, then the thief just robbed me again. I don’t buy into the argument that the bootleggers would not have bought my book anyways. I think that, had they not stolen the material, they absolutely would have bought it. The information is too valuable for someone into mentalism to ignore forever. Sooner or later the bootlegger would have bought my book, and that is a sale that was taken from me.
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts
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Elliot, you are free to believe that if it makes you feel better, after all the RIAA and the MPAA believe the same. Of course, professing such a belief will only open you to ridicule, the most basic being that I'd wager that a fair percentage of the piracy comes from countries where it is difficult or impossible to purchase things via paypal. Oh.. piracy funds terrorism too.
Much as your book is a lengthy tome on switching, it's not the only source of such material, mentalists were switching before it was published and will continue switching when you no longer publish it. While I admit that it is lower priced and more 'essential' than many others - it's not Corinda... and on that subject I met a good mentalist recently who'd not read Corinda... make of that what you will. What did you think of my more practical suggestions? Or shall we continue inflating figures and moaning about how something must be done?
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1791 Posts
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Just curious how does any of these differ from the vast book & video libraries owned by the magic clubs & even the magic castle.
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ElliottB Inner circle 3254 Posts
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On 2009-07-07 18:24, Davit Sicseek wrote: Do you actually expect me to respond to that? I don’t enjoy flame wars, especially on boards where the other fellow is likely to be posting under an alias, so I am the only one with anything to lose. |
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baggins321 Loyal user United States 223 Posts
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I like the idea of using watermarks. It wouldn't be THAT difficult to differentiate every one of your ebooks slightly. Make up a hidden code in the pdf, like change a certain word on a certain page for every pdf. And when you find one being shared on a torrent, read that pdf and find out which customer it was who's file is being shared. Seems like a possible tool to weed out file sharing?
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bevbevvybev Inner circle UK 2681 Posts
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Elliot - I think you are one of the few people who could actually gain from being shared as you have an ebook which is forever being expanded. People may find your ebook on Torrent sites, or even go out of their way to find it, but then get tired of always being out of date and finally buckle and buy it. It's almost like subscribing to software - you use it for free for a bit, but then you grow to like it and would rather pay for the updates so you know you're always up to date, rather than mess about on Torrent sites.
Your ebook is more like a service than an ebook and in a strange kind of way people are subscribing to you and your mission. There is a lesson in that somewhere. |
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Cristobal Loyal user Malaga (Spain) 288 Posts
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On 2009-07-07 11:41, Davit Sicseek wrote: It's a Harvard study: http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts
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On 2009-07-07 20:21, baggins321 wrote: Compare two copies, edit the differences, protection circumvented. Easier than scanning a book. Even if this isn't done, and the creator finds a copy of the book and can identify the original purchaser - what happens next? Legally this is not sufficient evidence for you to be successful in an action against them, so your legal remedies are exhausted. Morally, I'd still be very wary of passing a personal conviction on them. There is a plethora of 'plausible identifiability' open to the original purchaser. - They could have resold the book, a later owner being the pirate. - The book could have been stolen, in the case of digital watermarks this would also explain why several books from one purchaser are all found on pirate sites if a laptop goes missing for instance. - The book could have been copied by a friend or member of a bona-fide 'library'. You could as the purchaser attempt to limit the rights of your purchasers, restricting reselling and imposing a duty of care to guard against theft and unauthorized copying, but this too poses problems. Firstly you have to ensure you can identify the purchaser, in many jurisdictions the imposition of reselling restrictions isn't legally enforceable, and in the case of theft, you'd still have to prove negligence on behalf of the purchaser to make a claim. The final issue is the cost of actually taking action, double that if the action is in a different jurisdiction to your own. As I've said many times before... watermarks aren't a solution. Look at the big DRM-free music stores. I believe the vast majority of them use some sort of digital watermark in the mp3 files they supply. Has there been a single case against a pirate that presented 'watermark evidence'? Is the watermark anything more than a deterrence for the stupid?
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Nathan Pain Inner circle iowa 2825 Posts
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The only car that doesn't have a chance of getting stolen is the one that isn't produced in the first place...
Nathan
...
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mindhunter.jpg "View Profile"){kind=tracking} Inner circle Upstate NY 2285 Posts
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On 2009-05-20 12:27, Matthew Shepherd wrote: I think photocopying that would cost as much as an original! Bryn
Bryn D. Reynolds, Author of:
"The Safwan Papers" & "The LOGAR Scrolls" Mentalism ebooks - PM any interest. My artwork: https://darkmountainarts.com |
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Cristobal Loyal user Malaga (Spain) 288 Posts
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On 2009-07-08 20:21, mindhunter wrote: You've hit the nail on the head!  |
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FocusYourMAYND Regular user 174 Posts
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Then you have people like my dad, who feels that he doesn't have customers, but friends. Recently, someone torrented some of his books and videos. He saw this as a violation of trust. He wasn't mad about it. But he doesn't take trust violations lightly. One of the people was from Italy; one from Guatemala; one from Israel. He knows who one of the people are and has cut them off from future purchases. Since he can't figure out who the perpetraters from Israel or Guatemala are, until he can find out who "magician1967" is, he will no longer sell DVDs or Cds to these two countries.
John contacted the persons torrenting his material and informed them if they didn't remove them within a short time he would remove his DVDs from the market and produce no more future releases. He doesn't need the sales of DVDs to pay his bills. He makes his living performing. This means the future volumes of Cradle to Grave are, as of this writing, dead in the water. I thought he was kidding until he placed this announcement on his website. We were set to produce volumes three & four next week, but he canceled production until when and if this matter is resolved. So if any of you know who the parties torrenting these items are, It might be a good idea to put some pressure on them to pull those torrents ASAP. CYM |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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FocusYourMAYND
As a friend of your Dad, this whole thing T's me off. Thank you for letting us know about the situation. Tony |
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FocusYourMAYND Regular user 174 Posts
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Cristobal Loyal user Malaga (Spain) 288 Posts
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On 2009-07-13 10:04, FocusYourMAYND wrote: Sorry, but I can't see your father's logic. I don't see any "trust violation", and I don't know why he want to stop releases. IMHO all this have no sense. Like me, a lot of people feel share is morally correct. So, for me and other people, there is no "trust violation" here. Moreover, if you father stop releases he will punish the people that trust him, not the other. And he will lose a lot of future new customers. If your fathers ignores the people who torrents him work, everybody wins. Doing what your father wants, he and his trusty clients lose. Regards, |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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Cristóbal
I just want to make sure that I understand you correctly. Quote:
Like me, a lot of people feel share is morally correct. So, for me and other people, there is no "trust violation" here. By this, are you saying that you feel it is "morally correct" to post commercial material on a share site so people can have access to it without having to purchase it? And that it is not a violation of trust when someone who purchases the material puts the material on a share site? Tony Iacoviello |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Combat against torrents (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jul 7, 2009 10:49 am 
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