Obama took the "YES WE CAN" from us... In Ecuador, the national soccer team classified to the World Cup in 2002, and the phrase was "SI SE PUEDE!" =)
That is also piracy!
HAHAHA
Que viva la magia!!

Ever seen a copy of Card College on a torrent? How about David Regal's excellent new book? Has Dean Dill ever been ripped off by a torrent? Probably not. Think about it.

Many creators of quality magic are doing just fine.

Or care to use (EVER).

I for one will not buy any DRM video item or any ebook that cannot be downloaded and printed out. I want my hands on a physical item. I paid for it; I want to touch it and do with it as I please.

For one thing, I have a great deal of difficulty reading online text for any significant period of time. 3-4 pages of computer book reading at a time is about my limit before my neck develops a painful crick in it and/or I lose my concentration (and my place) and I drift off into an almost self-hypnotic sleep.

Additionally, I'm from the old school and prefer to have a hard copy to have in my lap to read while sitting in my easy chair (with pens and highlighters in hand). In the old days, I used to mark up my text books til he** wouldn't have it. With magic books, I switched to post-it notes. Since I print out most of my .pdf ebooks, the only compensating factor I can find with ebooks is if they are downloadable and printable. If they are, then I am back in my glory of being able to print out a working copy of a .pdf book and mark it up and cross-index the he** out of it.

Just, IMHO; your mileage may vary.

I agree, for most of the same reasons.

When I was a software engineer in the pro-audio industry, we had to deal with DRM schemes constantly. They always created more problems than they solved.

Yes as a matter of fact, I have. Many of them actually.

People scan them, convert them to PDF and upload them.

I once saw a torrent with over 400 books on magic included in it. Including Tarbell, Card college, Art of astonishment, 13 steps, BoBo, Dingle, Sankey, Kaufman, Ortiz and on and on.

You'd be surprised.

V.

I think material is more likely to be pirated if people feel that the price is unreasonably high (i.e. higher than other comparable works). I also think a lot of people feel that out-of-print books are fair game to pirate.

I don't defend this line of thought, but I think it is real.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I mean, I've seen tons of theory 11's 1 on 1's and they are only around 4 bucks. Same with most of Dan & Dave's stuff at around 8 bucks a pop.

I think that its just greedy little babies that think they have every right to upload and download whatever they like. "Everything should be free" and such rabble.

V.

People actually take the time to scan in books and then upload them to torrents? I am surprised.

I have browsed torrents before myself and found that most of the stuff was ellusionist/penguin type vids - over-priced, instant-download junk. Easy in, easy out.

Yes sir. Its really unbelieveable.

I've seen lecture notes, E books that are put out (Like the stuff that Lee Asher and Dan Madison put out). I saw one torrent that consisted of every video L&L put out with Ortiz. The list goes on....

I mean think about it. Someone actually took the time to scan the ENTIRE Tarbell series! That's dedication and that shows how deep it goes. Just about EVERYTHING on the magic market can be found in a torrent somewhere. Including the old OOP books.


V.

Actually, John, with all due respect, I believe just the opposite. Why so?

The magic buying habits of the "good old days" (i.e., the days prior to the existence of ebooks, online downloads and the now less expensive DVDs) seemed predicated on the buying of one copy of a VHS tape (remember them?) and then passing it around to your friends and/or having "viewing parties" of the tapes. At $80.00 per VHS tape, these tapes were a luxury purchase for many many magicians. Hence, the selective buying of these tapes and the sharing back and forth. ("I'll buy the new Paul Harris tape and you buy the new Eugene Burger tape and we will share them between us", etc.) This sharing was carried over to magic clubs with their "lending libraries". This sharing tradition now seems almost ubiquitous amongst many magicians.

Times have not changed. Fast forward to today's magic world. If the item is too high priced (especially if the item is artificially high-priced in the vain hopes that a purchaser will not share the item because of the high price), I can envision a group of magician buddies again pooling their resources, buying one copy and sharing the purchased item (primarily the magic knowledge) amongst themselves. Just like the "good old days". On the other hand, if the item is exorbitantly expensive and ]i]cannot[/i] be easily shared (i.e., DRM protected and/or files that are unable to be downloaded or printed or items that require a specially fabricated unique "something" that cannot be easily duplicated), then the aforesaid buyers will simply pass on the item and go onto "bigger and better things". Eventually, somehow and somewhere the magic knowledge will get out.

I also believe that if an item is too high priced for average buyers, and there is a pent-up demnad for the knowlege of the product and its methodology, someone somewhere will upload it to a torrent site--if only to gain the brief adulations of his peers and/or to "stick it to the man".

Took me 15-20 years to first hear and understand the words "torrent site". And now, understanding what torrent sites are, I think a person is crazy to go on such sites to download anything. Forget ethics, copyright infringement and legalities for the moment. From a purely pragmatic practical standpoint, how can a person trust the uploaders or have any confidence that any torrent file or the torrent site iteslf does not contain viruses, Trojan Horses and other vile computer-harming hidden files? In theory, with all the risks of viruses, Trojan Horses, etc inherent therein, torrent sites should be a magic author's best friend. I just cannot for the life of me understand the popularity of torrent sites or torrent downloads.

Just, IMHO. Your mileage may vary.

Best,

Mike

Turk - you make some great points. Look at what Apple has done for song downloading. People are happy to pay 99 cents on Itunes for a song they like. But $15 for a whole disc with a couple good tunes and a bunch of filler, not so much. The lesson: a good product, made accessible, and offered at a fair price can do well in the marketplace.

Speaking as a professional musician, you'd be surprised how many people balk at paying even 99 cents for a song they like.

Torrent sites are reality...private places where magicians are sharing DVDs, books...thats true. What about public torrent sites like demonoid is, the place where you can find even Marlos magazines???
I think we can not stop people sharing DVDs, scanning and xerox books, but if we can not stop that, then it is better to make private place only for magicians...but again, there are public torrent sites wehre some crazy minds leak files from private sites and upload to sites like demonoid, thepiratebay, btjunkie...
So, what to do??

So popcalinda, It seems that your a member of demonoid.

What do you think should be done?

WTF No Limits does have a solution to this problem..
This is a HUGE problem that should NOT be taken lightly.
And we are going to be part of the solution not the problem.

JM
WTF No Limits

HAAAAAA-HAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Oh man... I needed a laugh today. Thanks!

There is a probelm I did not see mentioned in this discussion about attempts to restrict copying, viewing, etc. If you offer any printed matterial for sale to the genral public it must be made accessible for the visulaly impaired upon request by Federal Law (ADA). Even the protectiosn offered with PDF cannot be used as they prevent visual enhancment software from functioning. So, you have to make available an alternative format upon request that does not have the protections.

The only answer is the obvious ones - don't' look at or buy from these sights or any SPAM offerings of any kind including 'hot' items at garage sales. The only reason that these illegal sources thrive is because they work! Make a pledge today -- never buy anything from a SPAM source or source other than that sought out by yourself as a customer. But, since you will not do that, quit complaining.