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gaafman Loyal user 248 Posts |
Hi,
I have been leeching some great material from this site and all the sites it links too. Thank you all for putting in the effort for making this site great. My question, which forms a dilemma for me is one I am not sure what to do. So I am hoping you all can give your opinions on this problem. I have been performing some close-up magic for friends and strangers alike. Great fun and get good reactions overall. Only I sometimes get bummed when I open a group and introduce myself, and someone in the group states that he/she isn't interested in magic. What do you do in that situation. You might have some magic lovers in the group that just aren't that outspoken. I only get one persons no. Should I ask the rest of the group if they are interested in it and blow her comment off at first waiting for the group descision (with the large risk that the others will support their friend)? What I chose to do in the past is something in the line of: no problem, enjoy your evening and if you change your mind let me know. It works and is a gentle and respectfull way out, but I wonder if there are other options magicians choose... |
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Irfaan Kahan Veteran user 346 Posts |
Two opposite approaches:
1) Tommy Wonder - Don't ever ask if they want to see "some magic". Rather, he opens by saying something like, "Do you like winning money? I'll show you how." And by the time you're half way through everybody should be enjoying your magic. 2) Can't remember the name, but a famous magician would say, "Fine. I'll show you just one trick - my best one: the Vanishing Magician!" and he would walk away. I guess it depends on your personality. I'm only just starting out in walk around, but so far what I've done is to jump right into an effect. This is one of my openings (the bare bones): I pick a coin of the floor, offer to give it to someone at the table - then proceed into several vanishes and re-productions. At the end I give the coin away like I told them I would. After your 1st effect you can usually gauge if they will want to see more or not. If you're fun and a likeable person - they will always want to see more. P.S. I think Michael Close would thank them and walk away . . . So as I said, it depends on you. See Jeff McBride's section also - he's got some excellent advice.
I'm a Magician playing the part of an Actor
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jjduck New user Chesterfield, Virginia 78 Posts |
Quote: Very good advice from someone "only just starting ". I had this happen to me many years ago and it kind of took the energy right out of me but I quickly recovered by the time I got to my next group. I learned then not to ask if they would like to see some magic but to introduce myself first and engage in a little conversation before I ever start performing. I usually know whether to continue on with a performance. If someone says they are not interested, don't take it personal. They may have other things on their mind and they probably sincerly are not interested at that moment. Some people just don't want to be the center of attention.
On 2009-05-29 06:42, Irfaan Kahan wrote: :goodluck:
Joe
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Other people just don't want their conversations interrupted by someone who wants to show them a trick. They don't know you, so why should they give you their time and attention when they've got something else going on? For me - not as a magician but as a group member - I would be very put off by someone who simply forced their way into my group of friends and took over our collective attention without permission.
Wonderful - you're out to have a good time. Well, so are we. Maybe we can do it together - and maybe not. No slam on any performer, but if what you're going to introduce into the group does not flow with what we've got going on, then you are not welcome to intrude. If you insist on inserting yourself, we just might insist on extracting you! So is your magic about _only you_ having a good time? Are you out to get a good time for yourself? Or are you out to give someone else a good time? If you are out to _get_, you will be miffed because they have denied you what you seek - but they are not under any obligation to provide that for you! No one can force me to make then happy. But if you're out to give away a good time, then you're not upset when you see they already have one without you. Is it about them or you? Ed |
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Sammy J. Inner circle Castle Rock, Colorado 1786 Posts |
I usually don't ask at first. I just open my fire wallet (where appropriate) and talk about how my 401-K has turned into a 101-K. I then judge the reaction (which is normally great) and if it looks like they like it, I pull Extreme Burn out of the wallet and change ones to hundreds. After this, they are usually interested. If not I move on. I mostly perform in a "Happy Hour" environment, so the groups are usually open to a little entertainment.
Ed raises a good question. I think that if the magic wasn't about me having a good time, I would have never had the courage to approach people I don't know. But, if I sense that the group isn't having a good time with me, I don't take it personally, I just "Exit, stage left"! Sammy
Sammy J. Teague
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I see nothing wrong with the original response. There is no need to try out "new lines" if you already have one that works well.
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gaafman Loyal user 248 Posts |
Thank you or your kind responses. I really had some new reflections on my "problem". Very much appreciated!
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MagikDavid Loyal user Cincinnati, OH 297 Posts |
Gaafman,
About 30 years ago, when I was getting serious about magic, I was fortunate to have an old magician friend as a mentor. I would travel with him around the city as he worked the bars and restaurants. His phylosophy was to never ask an audience if they wanted to see some magic. He always worked it so they would ask him. Example #1 - At a bar, he and I would sit and drink... at some point he would pull out a deck of cards and just start openly shuffling them and do some simple flourishes. Eventually, someone at the bar would say something like, "Are we gettin' ready to play poker?" He would reply, "Oh, no... my name is Rajah... I'm just a magician practicing some of my moves." Then he would continue just handling the cards and sipping his drink. Of course, the guy would usually say, "You are??? Show me and my girlfriend something." Pretty soon he'd have 15-20 people around... the show was on. Example #2 - At a restuarant, he and I would sit in a booth or table... he would secretly lay a $10 bill in the isle (attached to a silk reel in his hand, with a long thread and magician's wax.) Eventually, when someone reached down to pick it up, the bill would fly up to his hand and he would say, "That money is mine... I'm a magician and I need all I can get." 90% of the time, they would then say, "Could you come to our table and show us some magic?" Again, the show was on. Example #3 - At a bar on night, he touched his cigarette to a piece of f***h paper and threw it in the air. He looked up in shock, and said to the guy sitting a few stools down, "Man!!! Did you see that???" The guy said, "H**l yeah... I don't know what I saw, but maybe it's time I went on the wagon!" Rajah then said, "No man... I'm a magician, and I just thought it was gettin' too boring in here." The man said, "Really? Show me some more." Once again, the show was on... within 15 minutes he had at least 20 people gathered around watching his sponge balls, coins, cards, ropes, (his pockets were always loaded.) At his house, we would session together and he would explain that his encounters in public (although seemingly spontaneous) were actually well-timed and planned, based on the atmosphere and crowd. Since I'm not comfortable 'intruding' into strangers' space, the approach that my friend, Rajah used (rest his soul), has served me well through the years. Just wanted to share these thoughts... I hope I haven't bored everyone too much with this lenghthy post. Dave
One good thing about being wrong...
Is the pleasure it brings to others. |
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joshsmagic Regular user Chicago 189 Posts |
I agree with Ed Millis. I hop tables at restaurants and I don't use tommy wonders idea where I would just throw myself at the table. A lot of people, for whatever their reason is, might just not want to see magic. Maybe they had a bad day, or maybe they had a bad experience with magic, whatever the reason is, they might just not want to see it. Its not something to take personal. Its not about you. You're offering something to them, if they decline, simply thank them for their time and tell them to have a good night.
Performing for spectators isn't always 100%. This is a problem I had when I started out working at the restaurant. Anytime anyone turned me down, I took it personal and was let down. that's not the way I should've handled it. You just have to remember its not about you, you want to make them happy, and it makes you feel good to perform, but they are not trying to offend you, they just don't want to see it. For a lot of people starting out, its hard to grasp this fact. A lot people take it to heart and think, "if only they would let me show them what I could do, then they'd see!". Just don't take no's personal. One of my teachers opens sets by just getting right to the point, spreading the cards on the table and say, "can you help me with some magic"? This works well because asking someone to help you is a little less threatening than asking them to watch what you got. You asking them to help you with something and people are usually a little more open to that than other lines. I like the "help" line. Hope this helps, good luck stranger. Josh |
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Irfaan Kahan Veteran user 346 Posts |
Gaeton Bloom. That's the magician from my answer no 2.
I'm a Magician playing the part of an Actor
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
It is VERY freaky when you meet someone that really...REALLY does not like magic for some reason or other. They REALLY are out there. Lot's of great advice above.
All I would stress is that you have to be aware that when folks (generally) reject..they are almost always rejecting the 'magic' and not the magician. A pro will have to learn to not take it personally and go to the next group. I use the, "No problem! You folks have a great night..." and move onto the next. This is the reason, by the by, that I NEVER work 'walk around' where I have to approach folks. Just does not work for me. I had the late great Abe Creekmore make me a custom table for close-up that stands the perfect height to work behind. I place it at a station at the party, etc. I'm working and have folks come to me. You might think that I would have a lot of free time, but even working a two hour shift it never happened. I was almost always working for one group or another, etc. This manner of working a party eliminates the awkwardness of breaking in on folks, etc. Some performers have a personality that is able to approach folks and make it work....I am in constant envy of that ability. It's just not me. That goes to the last point and that is: It is really important that you know how YOU WORK THE BEST. If, as I am, you are uncomfortable approaching folks cold then you have two choices: One, work another way. Two, get help to learn HOW to be comfortable in working in the other manner, etc. Good luck,
Brad Burt
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cmdash24 New user 74 Posts |
The best advice is to walk away and just find someone else. There's plenty of poeple that REALLY do like magic.
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-06-02 12:58, Brad Burt wrote: Some people may just resent the intrusion into that time and moment. Another time, another day, and you would be most welcome. But you just happened to hit the right combination of time and mood and whatever else where you and your magic don't fit. I know there are moments with friends and family that *I* would ask you to go away - politely, of course, the first time. Ed |
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MagicRoo New user Germany 18 Posts |
I think the general problem why some people reject direct approaches from a magician is because they think it might be a scam and they might be afraid of getting ripped off. The media (tv, magazines, newspaper,...) is full of incidents of that kind.
I didn't do any table hopping but I suggest something like Irfaan (Tommy Wonder approach). There are many variations like - May I show you something strange / interesting / unusual? - I would like to do a little experiment. Will you help me out please? (Maybe use some things in context) - Did you know that you fork is very special? Here , I'll show you why... (I can image a reflective approach can work too) - Excuse me, did you hear of magicians who are trying to earn money in a restaurant? They do stuff like [begin your performance here] I personally experienced something similar to MagikDavids post: I was sitting in a bar with a friend (who is also into magic) and I showed him some new effect from my repertoire. After a while I could see people started to glimpse to our table. After a while we decided to perform some effects for some strangers. We walked to the next table and just asked a group of people "would you be interested to see some tricks?". Although this was a very direct approach, we were sure that all of them would say yes. Just my thoughts on this. |
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joseph Eternal Order Please ignore my 17407 Posts |
Walk up to table with Extreme Burn set up for foreign to American, and say, "Do you believe that? .. They won't accept Brazilian (or whatever) money here." ..Then do the change...and watch their faces.. ...
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Einstein)...
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Matt101 New user 88 Posts |
Some people are really pragmatic, the don't believe in magic and they say: this is simple, I know how you dit that. They are always wrong but what do you do in this situation?
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Yes and I am going to go up to each of you and just start playing ukulele music and singing, without asking
and if you don't like it. something is wrong with you if you don't like it but your buddy I'm going to keep playing and singing Time and place for EVERYTHING Going up to unsuspecting laypeople and performing????? What makes any of you think that is socially acceptable or in any way something you should do? Strikes me as truly lacking in manners Can you street perform like Gazzo and DRAW A CROWD!!!
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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JSpencer New user Salt Lake City, UT 19 Posts |
I've held training classes for professional sales people, and one of the biggest reasons why people leave high-paying, high-end sales jobs is the word "no". Rejection becomes Fear of Rejection, and eventually loss of desire.
Remember that it's probably not 'you', per se...but the fact that those folks just didn't want to be bothered (as others have said). A time and a place for everything is definitely true. I think some people believe that what they see on the videos (Celebracadabra, Ellusionist, whatever) where street magicians are walking up to people and EVERYONE is enthused is real. It's not. Editing is a wonderful thing...you can edit out the "no" people with the click of a button. MagikDavid's mentor did it right...he waited for the right time, and the right audience.
**********
Spence Salt Lake City, UT "Hey Spence, where are you from?" "Jersey" "JERSEY? WHAT EXIT? HAHAHA" *punch to the nose* "That exit, tough guy" |
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Ronald72 Loyal user Holland 249 Posts |
I believe that this only could happen in an a "walk around" situation. But like Brad said you do have the choice to perform magic under this conditions. Maybe yoy found out that this is not the right conditions for you. Just think about it. For me I do not work walk around. But I do magic impromptu. I experience when I just tell that I am a magician that's really get a great reaction. Often curious. Then when I ask if they would like to receive a gift of magic they always say yes. They will not refuse a gift.
Succes! |
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david12345 Special user 714 Posts |
I highly recommend Bill Abbot's Cocktail Card Magic, not for the routines per se, which are really good but his focus and ideas on walkaround and engaging groups of people is very helpful. For me when I do the walkaround I just introduce myself as the hired magician and this is my job tonight so...Then I guage the group.
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