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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts 
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Reporting from Lancaster, Pa. -- This historic town, where America's founding fathers plotted during the Revolution and Milton Hershey later crafted his first chocolates, now boasts another distinction.
It may become the nation's most closely watched small city. Some 165 closed-circuit TV cameras soon will provide live, round-the-clock scrutiny of nearly every street, park and other public space used by the 55,000 residents and the town's many tourists. That's more outdoor cameras than are used by many major cities, including San Francisco and Boston. click here for full article Important for security or invasion of privacy? What say you?
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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How are they suppose to watch public areas without seeing private property as well? While I can understand why some areas may want it but I think it is a bit too Euro for me.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Seems to me they have turned the world into a jail.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Rizzo Inner circle East Coast 3349 Posts
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Its only the beginning. The whole big brother concept spken about 20 years ago is coming to fruition everywhere.
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts
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I dunno. Doesn't bother me much if people want to put up cameras. Seems like a lot of what we do (watching television, phone call records, computer use, driving certain vehicles, GPS devices and options etc...) is easily monitored or tracked already.
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Scott Cram Inner circle 2678 Posts
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165 closed-circuit TV cameras?
Here in Las Vegas, that's roughly equivalent to the west end of the Caesars Palace Forum Shops. (I never figured out why people who successfully commit crimes in other places celebrate by coming to Vegas. They committed a crime, so now they want to come where they'll be on camera an average of 784 times per day?!?) |
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mvmagic Inner circle Has written 1322 Posts
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Sure, the idea of being watched is somewhat unpleasant, but if you just go about doing normal everyday things, I see no harm-I mean does it really matter if someone sees you carrying groceries or talking with friends? Where I live, the entire downtown area is covered by cameras and they have helped to solve many crimes.
My father-in-law is very security conserned and their entire estate is covered by cameras. I do mean every room, even bathroom and whereas the system is inactive while they are home, I still feel uncomfortable taking a leak! Now he owns a very large construction company and has things to steal at home but I still find that totally pointless-nothing has happened to them. Not proactive either as the cameras are VERY small (about the size of a matchbox) so you cant see them unless you start looking for them. I like my father-in-law a lot, but that kinda freaks me out.
Sent from my Typewriter
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nums Veteran user I have a life, or I would have more than 366 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-24 02:39, mvmagic wrote: So, you are OK with the government stopping you and searching you without cause, after all "if you are just going about normal everyday activities, what should it matter?" They (the goverment) is ever intuding on our liberties and rights in the name of "saftey and for the children" On a related topic, President Obama signed into law a bill to limit the advertising of the cigerette companies. Has he never heard of the first admendment? We are going down a very slippery slope and the angle is getting steeper. NUMS |
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mvmagic Inner circle Has written 1322 Posts
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I was not talking about government stopping you and searching you without a cause, but the presence of CCTV cameras in general.
Here in Finland I have never heard about such interference with someone's life. I certainly see your point though and I am very sure your concern is valid to an extent. I have the unfortunate pleasure to live in one of the most (statistically) violent cities in Finland and I know the number of violent crimes has gone down in downtown area after the cameras were installed. Though in 36 years, I have never seen any violence here personally. But yes, there definately is the possibility for great abuse of power.
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts
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Quote: Don't know about you, but when cigarette companies are using cartoon characters to sell a "fruit-flavored" product that also happens to be extremely addictive, I wonder who the target demographic is.
On 2009-06-24 11:42, nums wrote: By the way, corporate advertising is not "free speech". It's very expensive speech. And it's motivated by profit. The Supreme Court has ruled that profit-motivated speech is subject to intermediate scrutiny and restrictions. See here. This isn't a recent ruling either- it's from 1980.
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts
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Not trying to stir a hornet's nest here, but here are some thoughts.
This seems to be something that angers many Americans more than a lot of people from other nations. (And that issue might be narrowed even further by where one seems to reside in the United States as to the reaction you might expect to get.) Perhaps it has to do with your Bill of Rights and historic view that a government could turn on you and abuse your rights at any time so you have to be ready and armed to avoid it. This of course born out of your War of Independence with George III and the writings of John Locke. Individual views, can of course, be seen anywhere along the spectram from, "It's probably not necessary anymore," to forming militias and or blowing up government buildings and killing people. I think that in any general population, you will find a mix of opinions on the issue of where the individual's rights and the government's rights should meet. Still, many western countries do not seem to mind more government programs, at the expense of the individual, if they are seen to benefit the whole. The very essence of democracry, and I am a fan of democracy, dictates that someone is not going to like what is being done by their government. We try to avoid tyranny by distributing the power and using checks and balances, but there will always be some that don't like their current government or their policies. Society evolves and with it so do points of views. Democratic governments, to stay in power, often have to reflect these changes. At times, governments will lead these changes, but only with great effort. The wonderful thing is though, if you don't like any of it, vote against it in the next election. If you don't like the outcome of the election, then your point of view may not be the most popular and perhaps, just perhaps, you need to look at changing the way you see things or wait until the next election and see how it goes. |
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mvmagic Inner circle Has written 1322 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-24 13:18, RJE wrote: Good observation! Do you guys in the US or Canada have group breathalyzer testing at all? We do. Cops close down a road (in such a place you cant get away) and every driver gets a breathalyzer test. I have seen it on highways as well, both directions with dozens of cops. Someone might see this as a real nuisance and so on, but nobody complains because it does makes driving safer. But they do make you stop, make you roll down the window and make you blow in a plastic tube so they really are physically interfering with your life (to a degree). Would this be too much interference or would you rather have a drunk at the helm of an 18-wheeler slam into your SUV?
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts
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In Canada, we have what are called, "Spot Checks."
The principle is the same as you describe, however, you only need to blow into the tube if the officer suspects that you may be impaired. Spot Checks are most prevelant around holidays like Christmas or New Year's, but they also occur frequently in areas that have a lot of public drinking places like an entertainment district or where bars are plenty. Most people see them as a positive thing and respect what they are trying to do. You are breaking the law if you try to avoid one by turning or trying to go around it using other streets. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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My main concern is the camera looking into windows of private homes and businesses not so much the idea of them watching activities in a park.
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-24 13:58, mvmagic wrote: Don't know about the US, but this happens in Canada quite often. It is a criminal offense to refuse to supply a breath sample in such a situation. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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RobertBloor Inner circle The Socialist Republic of the USA. 1051 Posts
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USA - DUI Sobriety Checkpoints
Yes we have them. Officers will set up a road block and contact the driver of every vehicle. Upon reasonable suspicion the driver may be impaired a field sobriety test is conducted. Depending on the number of indicators during the test an arrest may be made and a breath test may be conducted. The arrested person may opt for another chemical test if they choose (blood or urine). .08 is legally intoxicated. .16 establishes aggravated DUI. However an officer may make an arrest for under .08 based on the slightest level of intoxication (meaning the person isn't legally drunk but in the officers judgment can not safely operate the vehicle) DUI Checkpoints are very controversial. Under our laws a police officer must have probably cause of a crime (or civil infraction) in order to detain you on a traffic stop. PC could be failure to maintain lane, no signal, erratic driving, no tail light, expired tags etc. The question then becomes, what is the probable cause to detain you at a DUI checkpoint? They're detaining merely for the fact that you happen to be driving on a given road at a given time. In my opinion that does not meet the burden for probably cause. However the Supreme Court ruled that DUI Checkpoints fall under the overwhelming public interest. Robert
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
-The Declaration of Independence |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-24 11:42, nums wrote: Apples and oranges. One is unobtrusive and inconveniences no one except criminals. The other is not. Quote:
On 2009-06-24 11:42, nums wrote: Again, apples and oranges. The FDA has been regulating advertising and sale of many drugs for many years. The bill Obama signed actually dates back to 1994, and it has been stalled in Congress. It gives the FDA the power to regulate advertising of cigarettes which, as you must know, contains an addictive drug. Much as the FDA already regulates advertising for many other drugs.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-06-24 13:16, EsnRedshirt wrote: Excellent observation. Point, set, and match to you.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3528 Posts
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"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
-George Orwell "1984" Get accustomed to this idea...
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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thorndyke Regular user Canada 147 Posts
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And if something you do and take for granted is suddenly legislated into a crime - what then? Here in Canada tobacco products cannot be advertised outright, which forced all the smoke shops to frost their windows and the revenue they got from companies that rented ad space inside the stores dried up. Players tobacco sponsored a formula race car event but not anymore. DuMaurier had the New music festival, but no more. Now my tobacco shops look like pron shops in the 1970s. Outrageous! Kids are NOT fooled by this and get even more curious and apt to try tobacco products.
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Posted: Jun 23, 2009 03:19 am 
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