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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
Hi all,
I was just wondering what was the best source to learn the In and Out Rope escape. I know Tony Clark has a DvD out there, but I prefer the hands to be in front of me. I am mainly a close up performer, but have done many stand up shows. I have been booked for many more stand up adult and corporate shows lately and I would like to add an escape. I think that the in and out escape could also be used for family shows as well. It's a packs flat plays big type of routine. I know the chair escape from Mark Wilson, but I don't want to use a chair. Thanks for any help you can give! |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Tony's routine can work for hands in front, you just have to be careful about a certain moment's work.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
You might want to consider at the In Again Out Again Cuffs, as an alternative. These work well for stand-up and appear more "showy" then rope. People in the back row can see the metal, chains and locks better then rope IMO. There is nothing to reset and it plays big.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
That's interesting. Where can this routine be found? I like the rope because they are able to tie you as tight as they like. With chains or cuffs, I feel like people can suspect they are faked in some manner.
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Look up tony clark on ebay. Someone is always selling his DVD.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
I know the Kellar wrist tie and I think I'm going to try it tonight at a gig. I'll let you know how it turns out for me. I just think that people aren't very familiar with or have handled many handcuffs and know they can be gimmicked in someway. I feel like most people have used rope before or can identify with it and know what to look for to see if it's gimmicked or not.
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Consider this:
You are tied in a hundred feet of rope and thrown in the water only to escape a minute later or You are handcuffed and chained by the police chief, throw in the water escaping just as fast. Another way to put this is... there are two men sitting at a bar, late at night, one of them works across the street in the high rise, got off work a few hours ago and has been drinking ever since/ The second man appears to be homeless but managed to stand on the corner long enough to get the funds to drink the same number of drinks the executive has. What is the difference between these two drunks? At the moment, the difference is the clothes they wear, nothing else. The audience only sees the magician (or EA) getting in and out of the rope or chains. They don't care if you got the chains from the top floor of an office building or you got rope off the back end of a delivery truck. It's the act of repeatedly escaping that's what you will impress the audience with. The two helpers that hold the cloth will "examine" either the locks of the rope. They are allowed to pull the chains or rope as tightly as possible. After you escape and re-enter the audience knows this is an act and they are taken by the situation..... not the props.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Well put Jay.
and I like your new glasses.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
There's always the Jim Ryan Thumb Tie. Phil Willmarth published Jim's lecture notes, decades ago. Maybe, you can find a copy for sale.
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magoben New user 24 Posts |
I not agree with Jay about the prop you are goin to use.
First, before I explain my point of view, I will use this example. If you are doing an effect with a changig bag, wich will be more impressive? The Classic Changing Bag or a changing bag that looks like a purse of a woman? The effect is th same, but the prop is different. You'll get more from the "purse changing bag" because it's something that in every day for the spectator and the also could think "It cannot be tricked". These is a point of view that Darie Fitzkee teaches in the "Showmanship for magicians". Also if it's simple, it's better. So... for the scape... The rope it's the best option because it is simple, it's not a mechanical thing. You don't have too much to trick there. With the handcuffs, they are not so simple, there can be a mechanical function that could release them, etc. Why do you want your hand to be in front of you? Is it for an special effect? In the in and out escape of Tony Clark it's a part where your hands are in front of you, so your hands could be tied in the back, and then, as the first part of the scape, your hands could be in front of you. |
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
Hey Everyone,
I agree with magoben on this one. The simpler the prop, the better. The effect went very well in the show on Saturday night. I had a lot of fun with it. I'm going to continually develop it and see how much comedy I can wring out of it. Thank you all. |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
O.K. then.
let me put both of you in a piece of rope and see how long it takes you to wiggle out then put you in a regulation pair of cuffs and see how long you stay cuffed. No gimmicks, no keys, no knives, just the rope and the cuffs. What about all those movies where someone is tied up and they slip the rope? The general impression about rope is that you will escape eventually. It all comes down to the best performance you can give. It's all about the showmanship.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Besides that, I don't believe any of the EAs here consider Fitske to be an adept escape artist. When you think of Houdini what comes to mind? Rope, yes chains, yes but probably the Water Torture cell, the milk can and the vanishing Elephant. None of those is simplistic.
What Fitske is referring to is the card mechanic who does 6 moves to get some set-up where you only need to do one. Houdini was once the highest paid entertainer in the world. One of the reasons is because he had variety. While there is nothing wrong with escaping from rope http://houseofenchantment.com/pages/100footropetie.html To be an escape artist, you must also appreciate any and all constraints. As you see from the Rope Tie DVD we sell, it would have been very easy for me to recommend that you only learn the rope ties and offer to sell you a DVD but because this is a forum for discussion and learning I only desire to open the possibility that once confined in rope, Chains, thumb ties, Cuffs, jackets Etc, That once you repeatedly escape the audience knows there is a trick to it, so the are entertained by the performance... not the props. Does the audience really believe an assistant is actually sawed in half for real? It doesn't matter if the illusion is horizontal or vertical, sawing is sawing, a 4 ace trick is a 4 ace trick and chains or rope can both be used to entertain the audience equally as well. Ken? Steve? Ray? Mpxy? Dave? Mick? anyone else have a different point of view, all are welcome.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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magoben New user 24 Posts |
Jay you are right but I not agree in some part. For example, you mention Houdini with all of that but remember he had a reputation. He challenge everyone to bring handcuff, ties, chains and everything and he will escape. I agree with you in escaping from handcuff if the audience bring them, or you have a police man there.
And twistedace I found a escape in Dixie Dooley escapology, vol. 1. It's call I think Houdini's Escape. He don't teach you as an In and Out escape, but you can perfectly adapt it. |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Nothing wrong with rope; but you can't do an hour + long show with rope alone.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Jay, slow down and breathe.
You're getting too ego-involved in this.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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magoben New user 24 Posts |
I found another two in and out escapes. The siberian chain escape (it even comes with some magic sets) and also you can use thumbcuffs.
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Steve.... if you say so... But I was just playing devils advocate.
The 3rd post by twistedace takes a position the audience holds a belief that handcuffs are tricked and rope is thought to be impregnable...... hay who invented that word anyway? That's all. IMO when you do the In And Out thing, it could even be from a locked refrigerator but after you get in and out a few times the public is much more amused by the situation, then the props.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
I'm with you, Jay.
The In-Again-Out-Again handcuffs can be examined for solidity, showing no more 'gaffing' than a piece of rope. Slightly off the subject, my personal problem with the In-Again-Out-Again handcuffs (or any 'chain' cuffs using the long loop) is that I was, as a 13-year-old novice, able to figure out how they worked at a glance. I've heard muttering laymen voice their opinion on how a magician/escapist they were watching got out, and their guess was right. IMHO they are not nearly as deceptive/convincing as magicians want to THINK they are.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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dave_matkin Inner circle 4522 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-06-30 19:00, jay leslie wrote: Just reading "hiding the eleefant" (that Jim Styraphone cant spell for tophee)there is an account (well several accounts) of the Davenports cabinet routine. And it strikes me as soon as you are out that first time - well ...... you have to really be funny to pull it off. Once you are out and back in in seconds - where do you go from there? In and out is OK but really I think twice before using. I agree with Jay (but he bought my allegiance MONTHS Ago by winding me up big time at the UKEA meeting - and from thousands of miles away!) And whilst I am agreeing / disagreeing with people…… who the heck are you “magoben” (meant as a kind of “introduce yourself to us” not a challenging of any sort). How long you been into escapes? You will find us a reasonable bunch but we don’t take newbie’s lightly so sod off now …. ONLY Joking! You will find a wealth of Escape information here – from many many generations of skill. A lot of the guys here have worked more years in escapes than you have been alive (I say that as I know you are 4 years old ). I’m sure you will enjoy reading and posting in the escape section! Its the best out there |
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