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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Smooth as silk » » Two Finger Dye Tubes (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Leeman
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Are there any Dye tubes that take two fingers as opposed to one?
Fred-Erik Johanson
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You can make one yourself or maybe I can try to make you one.

-Fred
hugmagic
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Take a tube about 1 1/4" in diameter and oval it by flattening it out some.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Fred-Erik Johanson
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I wonder how long it would be the best to make it?

-Fred
hugmagic
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If you use the core of a bathroom tissue roll, you can cut it to get an approximate length. Start with about 2 1/2" and work smaller.

Once you have a size, then you can make a metal or plastic tube.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Harry Murphy
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I guess the real question here is why bother? Do you have a routine that requires an oversize dye tube? Billy McComb made oversize, oval, two finger steal, dye tubes because his Half-Dyed Silk routine required them. His instructions for making the tube is in his book “McComb’s Magic: 25 Years Wiser”.

You can buy them already made from Abbott’s with the above mentioned McComb routine.

I think that if you start with the routine, size of silks needed, and then and only then decide on the props required you’ll be miles ahead.
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JNeal
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As Harry points out, The Mc Comb routine called for two oval shaped two fingered tubes. But the whole thing can be done with a palmo and while it's a tight fit, it eliminates the need for a second gimmick. I understand from my sources that a larger barrel shaped gimmick (not unlike a palmo) amy become available soon from Levent, if it isn't on his website already.
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Harry Murphy
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Levent has indeed designed and built a device that is more hand shaped and specificatly designed to hold two 15 inch silks. He built it to perform the half-dyed silk routine using one gimmick rather than two. He has it for sale on his website as part of the entire half-dyed silk routine (silks, gimmick, DVD).

As I mentioned above, Levent started with the routine and then built a gimmick that fit his needs and how he wanted the routine to flow. He discusses the development of his gimmick on his DVD. It is a great education on how to build a routine and necessary gimmick.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
Bob Sanders
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I have use the plastic elliptical container that ladies' roll-on deodorant comes in to make such a dye tube for myself. That and some flesh colored Band Aids work fine with 18" silks.

(Of course, money is no object!)

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- When Burlin Hull went to the nursing home, I bought a box of "inventions" he had been working on. There was a small snuff can with the bottom removed, edges covered with split tubing (to prevent cutting), mashed to make an elliptical container and painted flesh colored. There was also a piece of twisted wire around the outside to give a grip between the fingers. It was one of the few items not made from PA cans!
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TheAmbitiousCard
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I've not quite put the half-dyed routine into production but I do use the palmo a lot. I like it as well as the porper dye tube. not as well made but a touch shorter and a touch rounder.

the palmo is really a great item. actually for a plain dye tube the vernet is not so bad either.
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Andrew Zuber
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Can anyone discuss the palmo vs. dye tube vs. McComb's gimmick? I own McComb's routine from Abbott's which comes with the two items necessary to do the routine...sounds like a palmo might simplify the handling? I just don't know much about these other pieces.
Feel free to PM me if it makes it easier to answer. I love the half dyed silk routine and enjoy performing it...if there's a simplified method I would certainly be interested!

Andrew
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
Spellbinder
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Quote:
On 2009-06-28 23:41, Bob Sanders wrote:
I have use the plastic elliptical container that ladies' roll-on deodorant comes in to make such a dye tube for myself. That and some flesh colored Band Aids work fine with 18" silks.

(Of course, money is no object!)

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- When Burling Hull went to the nursing home, I bought a box of "inventions" he had been working on. There was a small snuff can with the bottom removed, edges covered with split tubing (to prevent cutting), mashed to make an elliptical container and painted flesh colored. There was also a piece of twisted wire around the outside to give a grip between the fingers. It was one of the few items not made from PA cans!


I knew there was a reason I liked your work, Bob! My Dollar Store Magic Book 2 is full of silk gimmicks you can make from stuff you find in the Dollar Store... like my toothbrush holder dye tube that Fred Goode demonstrates so well.
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JNeal
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Andrew,
The Palmo is a barrel shaped gimmick that has no ribbon or tape inside to kkep the silks from pushing thru' together. Rather , it relies on the turned in ends and operator scrutiny to make this happen. Most Palmo's will hold the necessary silks for McComb's routine if they are about 15' in size.

A traditional dye tube is straight sided and has a ribbon inside. This means that if your want to reverse the color change or alter any part of the dyeing of a single silk, you must reverse or invert the tube. This is the handling that is covered in Dai Vernon's Dai Vergent silk from the Vernon Chronicles.

Finally, the Mc Comb routine uses two dye tubes as described above. This is to accommodate the switching
of silks for the 1/2 dyed finale. McComb made his own tubes and they were tubes but in an oval rather than cylindrical shape. This meant that two fingers could be used for the steal. Ther is no inherent advantage to a two finger tube, although in some cases it may allow a larger silks to be used.
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Andrew Zuber
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Thanks for the tips! I've seen a picture of the palmo and of dye tubes but wasn't really sure of the advantages. As I mentioned I own Billy's routine so I have his gimmicks which certainly work fine for me...but does this mean the palmo can be used for the entire half dyed routine without needing to do a switch?
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
JNeal
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[quote

Palmo's will hold the necessary silks for McComb's routine if they are about 15" in size. So no switching of gimmicks is required.
If you use larger silks, I believe the palmo gimmick marketed by Levent will do the job. I'll know for certain in a week or so when I examine Levent's new gimmick.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
korttihai_82
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Quote:
On 2009-07-03 13:47, Andrewzuber wrote:
Thanks for the tips! I've seen a picture of the palmo and of dye tubes but wasn't really sure of the advantages. As I mentioned I own Billy's routine so I have his gimmicks which certainly work fine for me...but does this mean the palmo can be used for the entire half dyed routine without needing to do a switch?


Yes, good size palmo allows you to do the whole routine without switch of the gimmick.

Also Levents gimmick allows you to do the whole routine without the switch. Levent gimmick is similar to palmo with something extra to made it extremely easy to palm and handle and do some "sneaky" open handed displays.

However Levents routine has some angle problems if you want to use these "open handed displays" BUT you don't have to use them and you can use it similarly to normal Dyetube. Its very nice, but if you allready have McComb routine, 65$ is quite a lot for just the new handling...

If you don't have McComb routine and are considering this, I would go with Levents gimmick because on his DVD he also explains the McComb original handling and many other variations.

Juha-Matti
Levent
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Hi Guys:

I just wanted to chime in here as I think there might be little confusion about my gimmicks.

My new product "Levent's Color Changing Half-Dyed Silk" comes with three silks, a 50 minute long DVD and a flesh colored plastic gimmick with a special part that is attached to allow for my original handling of the trick.

Earlier this year I was asked by a well known professional magician, if I could make him a silk gimmick without my special attachment. Apparently he was using a standard Palmo ball for a double color changing silk trick, but the Palmo ball was too small for use with bigger silks.

Recently, I heard back from this performer and he told me he loved working with this gimmick as he found it to be much easier to palm and use than his standard Palmo ball.

The other thing he told me came as quite a surprise.

Before I tell you what he said, I want to mention that one of the things I learned when I began writing "Roy Benson By Starlight", was that when studying the magic of the past, it is best to have either the original props or reproductions of the props in your hands as you research the tricks. Because you learn a lot more from handling and performing with props, then by merely looking at photos of the equipment.

For instance when I researched T. Nelson Downs' vaudeville act for my Miser's Dream DVD set. I had a photograph of Downs' original Kellar coin dropper and could see that it was painted black and it had a metal projection on one side and a heavily milled coin soldered to one side. So I built a gimmick that matched the original.

Once I had the reproduction gimmick in my hands along with the top hat and a stack of coins, it became obvious why it was built the way it was. It was painted black because it was primarily used alongside and inside the black top hat. The metal projection was used to lock it inside the brim of the hat, so that the hat could be put down occasionally and picked up with the gimmick ready to drop coins.

The heavily milled coin was attached to the edge in order to aid in palming the dropper. Also the milled coin allowed you to tell the orientation of the dropper without looking. In other words after Downs stole the gimmick from under his vest (as he picked up the "borrowed" top hat) he could instantly feel if the gimmick was in the correct position to load into the hat. If the gimmick fell into his hand in the wrong way, he could adjust it in a split second without looking.

T. Nelson Downs' modifications of the standard Kellar coin dropper seem to be a perfect example of Louis Sullivan's famous maxim: "form follows function".

Some of you know that I am currently working on a Billiard Ball DVD set and I can tell you that I have made similar discoveries as I recreated Cardini's full billiard ball routine (8 solid balls & 1 shell). The fact is the best way to learn how...is to do.

Getting back to my silk gimmick. The two holes in my gimmick are of two different sizes. The top hole is slightly bigger and allows for the silk to be pushed in, in a easier more natural manner. The bottom hole is smaller which keeps the changing silk from popping out prematurely.

Well the magician who is using my unmodified device told me that because of the shape and hole sizes of my gimmick, he could instantly determine the orientation from the way it felt. So when he reached into his coat pocket to get the silk and gimmick he could make sure the gimmick was in his hand the correct way without looking. This was important to him as he had two silks loaded in the gimmick and wanted to have the correct color appear first.

Frankly, I never saw that coming. But from my experience with T. Nelson Downs' Kellar dropper (as explained above), I fully understand the value of such a feature.

It's funny that I have so many silk gimmicks in my collection and they all are designed so that you cannot tell which way is up.

I have made up a couple of these gimmicks (without the special attachment, half-dyed silks & DVD) and will send them to a few pros (Jonathan Neal being one of them), to get some feedback, before I decide whether or not to sell them on my website.

Best regards,
Levent
http://www.LeventMagic.com
JNeal
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Thanks Levent for the kind mention. You and I share a love for great performers and mysteries of the past and making them relevant to today. I purposely didn't mention too much about the gimmick, but I am anticipating looking over your gimmick and working with it.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
Andrew Zuber
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Thanks for weighing in, everyone!
"I'm sorry - if you were right, I would agree with you." -Robin Williams, Awakenings
hugmagic
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The orientation feature is important. That is one thing I added to McComb traditional tubes so I could tell the orientation without looking.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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