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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Ever so sleightly Ľ Ľ Bill Wilson's Cups and Balls (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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gdw
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LOL, the "load(s)" fooled me. The last one that is.

Actually, I found the structure of the routine rather similar to my own. Though the exact handling and "effects" that are done are different, the structure is similar IMHO.

As far as setting up the final loads, my only thought would be slightly re-wording it to something like, 'But that still leaves three cups, which means, one, two (revealing the two end cup loads) and three balls' but that's my 2 cents.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Bill Wilson
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Quote:
On 2009-07-02 19:50, gdw wrote:

As far as setting up the final loads, my only thought would be slightly re-wording it to something like, 'But that still leaves three cups, which means, one, two (revealing the two end cup loads) and three balls' but that's my 2 cents.



I see what you're getting at gdw and it's not a bad idea at all. The reason I word things at the end as I do is because things are worked exactly the same way four times prior to it. It's kind of like a running gag, only in this case a running line. Just a matter of consistence.
gdw
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True, but in that case you could just change all the wordings,a s it would stll work the same I believe.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Joe Howard
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That was a lot of fun to watch! Thanks for uploading it !

Joe H
ricardo carpenter
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Working on a personnal routine, something little different, I tested some parts with laymen and magicians: it makes me go back to what the trick is for spectators: a game, something they think they know. And second, if there is no final loads, there is no end. They expect something. Even is something happen before. And the final load is the bigger something which claim they can relax and totally enjoy because it's defy explanation. I think the focus has to be on what is the structural effect of the routine. Is it travels? multiplications? For my routine I choose that the repeated effect is that the balls can penetrate the cups. So all the routine, all the "game" is to make them feel the balls can really penetrate the cups. Idem for the final load: big penetration.
And I think that something which fit all the cup, fits the routine: this empty space has to be fullfilled. Cups are like an empty stomach. Give them some steacks.
Lawrence O
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In the Bill Wilson's routine, there are many very good things

First it's personal (such a rare privilege: Kent Gunn should know)

The balls are not just presented, they are magically produced with a nice time displacement (in general the routine is doing a very good use of time misdirection)

What I would have avoided is the "cup number one", "cup number two" and "cup number three" because, after taking us into fantasy land with an attractive script, this brings us back into an almost crude reality.

I felt also something wrong with the final load. I would respectfully disagree with Pete for vanishes supply a frustration that productions do not. As underlined by Patrick Page and Ken Brooke, the surprise resulting from odd large loads like fruits, sausages etc. is far superior to any vanish or production of larger balls. Anything that looks alive is definitely the strongest (for a while I used a hamster as fourth load after fruits) except for liquids perhaps.

I would dare suggest that what is disturbing in Bill Wilson's excellent routine is the fact that his effect with the large load is not announced by a higher voice pitch or some kind of suspense: the balls just appear there but that's it. The problem, IMHO, lays only in the acting and not in the technique or in the nature of the balls. Marking a pause to break the rhythm would probably be sufficient to create the suspense, and then the strange feeling that all of us got would probably disappear.

I still like very much the routine for its originality: it is well designed and the variety of vanishes is finely combined. A great work.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Bill Wilson
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Thanks for your words of wisdom Lawrence. I put my routine on YouTube hoping it would eventually appear on The Cafť. Firstly for the exposure as mentioned in a previous post. Secondly in anticipation of constructive criticism such as yours.

As far as referring to the cups as; 'cup number one', 'cup number two' and 'cup number three', I don't know how else I can do it. Numbering the cups and the balls has been a big part of how the routine flows, although I see what you're getting at. Perhaps if I changed my wording to first cup, second cup, third cup and likewise with the balls. Maybe saying it that way would take away that 'crude reality', you speak of. Refilming it, with the new wording and playing it back for myself will probably be the best test. I don't know about anyone else but I hate watching/listening to myself on video.

As far as the final load(s) revelation, gdw in a previous post mentioned that there was something wrong with my wording at this point. Maybe it's not so much my wording as it is my acting. As you point out 'making a pause to break the rhythm' might just do the trick. There is definately something to what gdw and yourself point out. The way it is now lacks that needed punch. A second thing to look at. This fix should be an easy one though.

Thanks again Lawrence, much appreciated.
Bill Palmer
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I like the routine. Very well done. The loads caught me completely off guard.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Lawrence O
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When there is a problem always consider the possibility of using humor to avoid addressing it (in magic not in real life). You could say, tongue in cheek, "this one is made of copper", "this one is silver" and "this one is gold" and then twisting the old gag that isn't really funny "now I had them chrome plated otherwise it would be too easy" (without saying too easy for what.) Then you can refer to any and each cup as "the gold one", or "the silver" one or "the copper one".

Congratulations again for not having filmed yet another Dai Vernon routine (which I like even more when the Professor performs it) and gratitude for having taken the trouble to design something that stands on its feet with quite a bit of brain behind it, and to share it with us.
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Bill Wilson
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Quote:
On 2009-07-06 11:55, Lawrence O wrote:
When there is a problem always consider the possibility of using humor to avoid addressing it (in magic not in real life). You could say, tongue in cheek, "this one is made of copper", "this one is silver" and "this one is gold" and then twisting the old gag that isn't really funny "now I had them chrome plated otherwise it would be too easy" (without saying too easy for what.) Then you can refer to any and each cup as "the gold one", or "the silver" one or "the copper one".



Yes you might be on to something. A friend does the rings and explains before taking them out of their bag that they are 'solid gold rings'. After revealing them he mentions that he had them chrome plated to protect the gold. Something similiar could be done with the cups. Introducing the cups as gold, silver and platinum and then explaining that they have been copper plated to protect them could be a way around refering to them as #1, #2 and #3. It still leaves me with the problem of how to refer to the balls.

My routine was always intended to be more on the serious side. Nothing wrong with a bit of humor though, expecially if it serves a purpose.

Thanks again Lawrence.
kentfgunn
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You could always work up a routine with three different cups.

I know by working up a routine with three different colored balls I was able to dodge referring to the cups by number.

KG
Lawrence O
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To create the expectation of the large loads, you can apply the Magic By Theory

Quote
If you want to get the greatest reaction out of a spectator, they need to want the magic. So the first thing I want to ask you is this: How do you make someone want something? Think about some possible answers. Tell them they canít have it. Make it valuable. Make it rare. Donít tell them what it is. Make them wait for it. Dangle it over their heads just out of reach. Think of your own answers. In fact, ask yourself this very question every time you go to perform for somebody. How do you make someone want something?

Then, apply your answers to magic and let them guide your performance. For example:

o Tell them they canít have it. "Iím not sure if youíre going to be ready for this kind of trick. Itís very powerful and it freaks a lot of people out."
o Make it valuable. "What you are about to see is beyond the ordinary card tricks youíve seen in the past. Itís not even a trick. Itís more. In fact, this will probably be the most magical moment youíve ever experienced."
o Make it rare. "Very few people have seen what I am about to show you. Even fewer are able to do it. Even I try to keep this one to myself most of the time."
o Donít tell them what it is. Donít give them any clue as to whatís coming, but prepare them for some general form of powerful magic.
o Make them wait for it. Constantly tease to get in the way of the final effect. I always loved Jay Sankeyís line. Right before the climax, ask, "Have you ever had your heart broken?" Then put the cards down and say, "Letís talk about that for a minute."

How do you make someone want something? Start asking yourself this all the time. Yes, the answers to this very important question mold together a very powerful factor in magic called Anticipation. Letís talk about that.

Every rollercoaster fanís favorite rollercoaster is the one with the largest drop. Why is that? Most would say itís because of the fast pace, the wind in your hair, the screaming, whatever. But stop and think about this. Most drops are one or two seconds, which is not enough time to register the powerful emotions such as fear and excitement. So where do they come from? They come from the ride up to the top of the drop. You know that thirty second wait, hearing the "clickity-click, clickity-click, clickity-click." Thatís really the moment when you get excited. Thatís the ride that stirs up the adrenaline. Sure, the drop is fun, but subconsciously, the wait up is infinitely more thrilling. I think the people who love big-drop coasters, whether they know it or not, really love the ride up more than the ride down.

Now letís shift this into the gear of magic. Consider the rollercoaster drop your effect. It can be really great, but it is absolutely dependent on the things that get it there beforehand. Remember on the rollercoaster, without the wait, you would not be able to release the feelings of fear and excitement on the way down. The wait is used to build up these feelings so they can be released later. Thatís why presentation is SO important, and why the focus of your presentation should be to create as much anticipation as possible.

If you can make the spectator want to see the magic, then your job is done. But that takes work. You need to build up the anticipation until they can hardly take it any more, almost to the point of annoyance, and then hit them with the effect. This will get optimum reactions. Remember, the more you want something, the better it is when you get it. (Why do you think you only celebrate your birthday once a year?)

Unquote
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Pete Biro
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You contstantly amaze me.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
Lawrence O
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Business is a good practice ground for magic and deep home work is rarely wasted.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Bill Wilson
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Quote:
On 2009-07-06 17:49, Pete Biro wrote:
You contstantly amaze me.



I agree Pete, that theoretical analogy was amazing.

Changing the way the cups are referred too, that is #1, #2 and #3 would be easy enough to do. Changing the way the balls are referred to as #1, #2 and #3 would be very difficult without changing the routine as a whole. I will likely keep referring to everything by number, unless I can come up with a way to change patter lines without changing the routine. I guess it's all a matter of priority.

However, the ending will change. Either the words will change slightly or else the way I deliver them will or a combination of both. Something at the end will be revamped to give that extra punch.
videoman
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Personally, I kind of liked the numbering patter you used. The only thing I may have done differently is used perhaps fruits or vegetables for the final loads. I happen to prefer incongruous objects for the ending and don't much care for larger balls but that's just me. Gives more of a good surprise punch I feel. Plus folks just seem less likely to suspect you're carrying around potatoes in your pockets or in your coat, especially true with baby chicks. I would still refer to them as "balls" though, but with a wink or knowing smile.
Bill
Lawrence O
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For the cups if you wish to keep the serious gambling tone of the routine, you can misdirect the audience with the chrome gold, silver, aluminum explaining that their weight is the secret way used by swindlers to tell one cup from the other. That's something that the audience will not have thought of and that will hold their interest. It is also a god misdirection.

For the ball I would definitely not refer to any number: this would subliminally put some members of the audience on track. If you feel absolutely compelled, use "first", "second" and "third", but "this ball" keeps a unity about a ball that travels and avoids creating any form of relationship with the other balls.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
fortasse
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Re: Lawrence O's interesting and provocative theory, I think it was Marcel Proust who wrote that the deepest and most emotionally intense aspect of any event was not the actual experience of it but rather the anticipation or recollection of it.

Fortasse
Lawrence O
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We even had a French president who, when asked about sexual relationships, stated "the best moment is when you go up the stairs"... (Not as stupid as it may seem)
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
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