Just a quick question regarding preferences for working with a stack:

Do you prefer to crimp/mark/shorten the top or bottom card as I have done up until now, or do you take the same approach as for instance John Bannon and include an additional Joker with that same function?

It seems to me that there are pros and cons to both approaches.

I use the world's biggest Breather as I often use unfresh decks, and that 9D is certainly not completely examinable. Also the crimp can tent to work against smaller crimps done on the fly for non stack work.

On the other hand I can work across the cyclical stack without remembering to add one to the math. And a Joker seen more than once on the bottom is easier for a spectator to remember, should it flash. And then there are of course the self workers and mathematical effects that require 52 cards or an even number at least.

So I was curious as to what personal preferences people have? I realize that it will be highly subjective and dictated by what kind of effects they usually present.

I've always used the scallop short on top of the deck. It's easy to cut to the top (don't have to worry about whether or not I "hit" it, as is sometimes the case with a breather), and it doesn't interfere with faro work.

However, I recently saw on a Josh Jay dvd that he does the same, but adds a side scallop on the 27th card. I like this idea, and will probably give it a try. (I thought he said 27th, but now I'm thinking it should be 26th? If you riffle down the side with your left thumb, I think you'd want it on the 26th card to cut the 26th to the bottom...)

I don't like the idea of adding a card to the deck.

All of my prepared decks are corner shorted on the bottom card and I have a breather crimp set up on the 'guarantee' joker. If I'm in an impromptu situation with a borrowed deck then I typically set a breather crimp on one of the jokers.

Where the performance is so impromptu I can't even do that then I'm not dealing with a stack of any kind so I'll just use a corner crimp on the bottom card to control the spectator's selections.

I like having two special cards in my deck. I would not put a heavy breather crimp in anything but a joker, but it's still nice to have the breather in there as it's much easier to cut to it while the cards are on the table.

Breather Crimp in the top card (and it's marked).

Breather crimp on guarantee Joker (on bottom), makes cyclical overhand shuffling (thanks to Joshua Jay) and cutting to original order a cinch. I tried with a scalloped card (again, from JJay), but prefer the breather now.

I don't use jokers. I find it somehow "unnatural" to remove them later. But that is a personal opinion. The "nature" of your locator will be (after much experimentation) at the end a personal preference too. Short, thick, corner, crimp, breather, scallop: the locator that works best for YOU is the best locator.
And like everything in life too, every locator has his advantages and disadvantages.
The remark of Cain (top card is marked)I use too. It gives you possibilities in several ways.Don't overlook the hint of Cain.

I also use a scallop short of the top card. (Got this idea from Mike Close.)

As to the idea that the 9D may be seen often on the bottom of the deck, I suggest this: Don't keep your Aronson Stack in "home" position for very long. Allow the bottom card to flash when it's not the 9D and when you have to be in home position, cut the 9D to the bottom just before it's needed there. Try not to flash the face card of the deck when it is the 9D.

Dennis Loomis

Thank you for all great input! Good thinking to not have the deck in "home" position all the time. Earlier today I had a similar thought myself, which is to simply give the deck a cut before loading it into the case, so that it can be produced flashing a random card which will subsequently disappear, should someone look. I think I will do that as a default setup. (I've had the stacked deck in my pocket out exactly zero times in the last 18 or so months. Still it needs to be there in its case).

As for what crimp system to use, I have after this discussion and also some PMing with Churken who has some intelligent thoughts on such matters, decided to go with a milder Breather/reversed Breather in the top and bottom cards both. With my current deck at least, this can not be seen. And should one of them be used and out of the deck for some reason, you could still hopefully find the way home.

The possibility of additional crimps, shorts or marks were suggested by him. I will try to make do with the one locator spot and simple estimation cutting and glimpsing for now. But a couple of alternate ones to find other specific areas of the stack without hesitation is not a bad idea at all. I do have problems estimating the first and last 15 or so cards by feel.

I use a Breather Crimp in the JS (face card disguises the work a bit more)... and as Dennis has suggested, I try and not flash the bottom card when the 9D is there... I have had sharp spectators pick up on this...

I will have another card on the bottom and cut the nine there just before I need to go into action...

Danny Archer

I use Solaris Breather card - he has a Breather card that works great for me and is pretty much invisible. I purchased it some time back but I believe he still carries it for around $5 you get two breather card gimmicks one of each color in bicycle stock.
The best part is its one of the 52 so you don't need to keep the joker in as I don't like to do.
Check his site http://www.gmrcreations.com

that's what works well for me-

Just returned to this thread to add the following comment. If you avoid keeping the deck in home position so that the 9D does not flash all of the time, you can begin many effects with a straight cut. We know that we're using a crimp or a short (scallop or corner) to return the deck to home position, but to the lay person it looks like a random cut and impresses on them the fact that nothing is set. I get a little secret satisfaction from this... appearing to be fair, when in fact I'm doing what I have to do to start a routine.

Dennis Loomis
P. S. This applies in spades to keeping the deck in it's case without it being in home position. You get to flash a random card on the bottom as you remove the cards from the box. Then you do a legitimate (?) straight cut before you do anything else. This may even throw off other magicians.

Preferring crimped card to locate. I have a hard enough time with just 52 cards in the deck. Don't perform for Magicians and try and keep the bottom card my business only so how the deck comes out of the box and such is of no concern.

Dennis, do you start your routine with a mem deck? I remember reading (either on this forum somewhere or in some book) a suggestion that it is a good thing to start a routine without a mem deck, do some stuff where the spec shuffles and then when you're ready, do an off-beat switch and by that time no one would possibly think that you could have a stacked deck.

I've only been in position to do this a few times but in each case there is no thought at all of a prearranged deck since the specs just shuffled the deck themselves before the effect.

Steven, this is one possibility I use. Also I often use a stacked memorized deck that is almost ready stacked; but while performing sometimes up to 4 routines which do not use the stack I complete the stack. When I finally use the stack nobody can even imagine a stack and what is coming is hitting very hard... Jan

I also use a breather on the bottom card, which is kind of a coincidence because I started putting a breather in the 9D in all my decks before I even knew about mem decks. I also cut the deck before putting it away purely because I once wore off the ink on the back of my JS from always putting it away with the jack on top.

I use a scallop short at the moment but think I will use a breather going in near future...
Funny, I also worn off JS and 9D in my desk. I will try and do what Dennis suggests.

I forgot to ask this, but does any one here use a breather and also use the Truffle shuffle? I would very much like to, but I find that the Truffle shuffle really messes with the breather after a while.

I don't add an extra card in the deck.

I use Martin Nash's "Infinity Crimp". The work is put in about 0.5 of a second, and can be taken out just as easily.

The best technique I've ever used for this, and that's saying a lot - I've tried many over the years.

Cheers.

I've found that a crimp isn't necessary to return the deck to stack order after cutting. Just by the deck staying in it's stacked state regularly, after maybe a week, the work is done automatically. I can easily cut to the 9D, the bottom card of my MD stack, every time. I assume that it has to do with relative humidity and the natural wear of cards.

Certainly a small corner crimp or a breather would be useful too, I've just found that this "automatic" dirty work is a nice built-in feature...why do the work when the laws of nature will take care of it for you?

Perhaps your breather is too soft? Or your shuffle is too "hard"? I have never lost a breather in any type of shuffle. The x pattern gives you insurance.

However, get a copy of Ted Lesley's Paramiracles. You will learn some interesting approaches.

Namaste,
Vlad